Nobody told you your company qualifies

thank you very much for for having me. I was excited about this.

Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent observation. I I went to work for a company called Dover Corporation in nineteen seventy-five. Back then about three hundred million in sales. And Dover had approximately ten businesses in Canada. In most cases, they were smaller manufacturing subsidiaries of Dover's US businesses. The advantage I had is that Canada had an RD tax credit, so I had a chance to work on the Canadian credit. Back in 81, it sort of surprises people now historically, but the US was getting increasingly concerned about Japan. Japan at that time was starting to sell a lot of Toyotas, a lot of Nissans. They had bought Rockefeller Center at premier property here in New York City. They bought Pebble Beach, one of the most famous golf courses in California. So Congress started getting concerned and said, What should we do to react to the the Japanese success? And somebody said, Well, why don't we have an R and D credit like Canada? And what the US did is they basically utilized the same definition sets. So I had an advantage. I already was experienced with the Canadian credit, and I could implement an R D credit program for Dover right from the beginning in nineteen eighty one. So it it gave me a big advantage. And

Yeah, I'm I'm so sorry, go ahead. Well, Cooper was headquartered in Houston. when they first hired me, they the the intention was that I would reside in Houston and they were kind enough to give me an apartment which I stayed in for almost three years. But then it became clear to me that Cooper was going to be sold. I worked on some of the preparation to get it sold. And I had to reflect on what did I want to do now? Because what what happened is Cooper was eventually bought by Eaton Corporation, a very large and successful company. And Eaton was headquartered in Cleveland. Cleveland's a very nice town. In fact, my daughter-in-law is from Cleveland. But I I reflected on the fact that having lived my whole life on Long Island, which is a great place for golf, great place for boating, that I I didn't really want to relocate to another location. So I was lucky enough at Cooper to learn a lot about energy efficient lighting. This was a time when LED lighting was first being developed. I had the opportunity to visit Ill Cooper's facilities not only in the US but Mexico, China, India. And I was privy to the next generation of technology. And when our country proposed energy tax incentives. that was specifically focused on energy efficient lighting, energy efficient HVAC. I had learned a lot about HVAC when I was at Dover for 26 years. I I reflected on it and I said, I've always worked with engineers. And I I know that engineers really don't have that much of an interest in tax. and I presumed that tax people were not gonna delve into the functionality of lighting systems and HVAC systems and the building envelope, which is what we call fenstration, insulation, roofs, things like that. So not that it's rocket science, but it's at the odd intersection of two areas that don't come together that often. So I decided to take a shot at creating a business to capture these brand new incentives. And you know, luckily I was in the right place at the right time. And it turned out to be a a a very productive thing to to do.

Yeah, that's that's that's a a very intriguing question. We a famous hockey player here is Wayne Gretzky and w we we there was always a comment about him that he tries to anticipate where the hockey puck is going. So what we try to do is is make a guess, our best guess, and where we see technology going. So we we we we felt there was substantial future opportunities in the life science biotechnology area, med tech area, health tech. So we I hired over time four biomedical engineers so we can capture business in that area. And in in the same vein we have four software data experts because a big area for us i is is software related technology. It's it's it's kind of funny everyone since chat GPT came out, everyone's focused on AI, but Artificial intelligence and machine learning has been around. Machine learning was was first showcased in Dartmouth University in nineteen fifty-six. So we have worked on AI and machine learning projects for well over 20 years. So you know, sometimes when you place a bet, it's it turns out to be a good bet. But yeah, I've always believed you gotta take a shot at something and then see where it goes.

Hmm. So Well, we're we're fortunate enough to to have many legacy clients because a a company can get an R and D credit year after year. So if you go back to eighty one when we worked on clients, we generally were working on two areas, new and improved products, which are eligible for the R D credit, and then new and improved processes. To be honest, in the beginning, we we were strong and focused on the product area. It took us a long time to learn there were there were equal, if not greater, opportunities on the on on the manufacturing process side. So because once you make a new and improved, design a new and improved product, then you have to make it. And the the making of it normally requires you to change your processes. Now you can have standalone process improvements when you re-en reengineer a facility and things like that. But normally they go hand in hand. And back in the early eighties, software, IT, wasn't a as mainstream as it is now. So the real answer to your question is the the third leg on the stool now and and occurs in virtually all of our clients is improvements in IT, improvements in software, whether it be installing ERP systems, migration to the cloud, cybersecurity, and then of course AI and and machine learning. Almost every client we work on is now putting more and more investment in those areas.

Well, I was fortunate. Dov Dover owned fifty different industrial businesses. So the elevator business at one time became the biggest business, and I actually handled a sale of it at that time to Tyson. It was recently sold to Coney. but Dover had businesses in food equipment, oil and gas equipment, aerospace, electronics. the automotive industry, automotive lifts, gasoline dispensing nozzles, trucking manufacturing businesses and garb garbage trucks and high oil tankers. So you're right. And frankly I probably never even appreciated it when I was with the company because when I joined the company there were 13 industrial businesses. When I left there were 50. So I had a chance to delve into the technology in many, many different businesses. And yes, to your point, that's extremely helpful. When when we we get a trucking company in and and they know that I've worked with Heil garbage trucks and and heil gasoline fueling trucks. that pe people know we we understand you know something about the the industry. along the same lines, although I didn't have the background, our biomedical engineers are are you know strong on imaging and our clients appreciate them knowing that our people have that knowledge. When we when a new software IT company client comes in, we put a software engineer on it. Now w where we're fortunate, the majority of our staff not only are engineers, the majority have advanced degrees We have two PhDs and many people that have master's degrees. So we have a a pretty high caliber stand.

Well, w we explain after analyzing their their business, and we analyze a business by looking at their website, looking at their LinkedIns, looking at patent filings if they have patents. We try to do as much upfront work as we we can to understand a company. We tell them at the onset, we know they're gonna do their best job they can explaining what the company does to us, but And we we make our best effort and we'll get them the appropriate credit, but in the ensuing year, we'll do a better job because we know the company better, they understand the process better. The whole purpose of the credit is is to drive innovation and to reward companies for expanding their RD investments, which means in many cases, once a client gets used to the credit. They then, as they're going through their decision process as to whether they should invest in another technology, they'll call us and say, Hey, we're thinking about this project. What's it going to do to our RD credit? And an R and an enhanced RD credit's not going to turn a bad project into a good project. But it often gives an enough incremental economic return. that'll cause a that'll it it'll justify a project that might have been on on the edge for being approved. And that that's the way we like to work. We like to help our clients use the credit to drive their business forward.

Well, you know, n not necessarily mistakes. Sometimes they mistakenly think that taking a credit's gonna require a lot of additional work on their part. And and the answer is is no. With today's systems, the information that we need to calculate and support a credit, they already have. And they already have digitally, electronically. So it's really a matter of explaining to them what we need to access in in in order to determine their credit and and support their credit. so I don't know if you call that a mistake, because it's really it's really not a mistake. It's sometimes it's an initial belief set because you know, people in many companies today, they're stretched. They're doing a lot of work, they're doing a lot of different things, and there's a lot of people that don't want another assignment that's going to require a lot of their time unless it it provides an appropriate reward.

Well, w we have a strong aerospace and defense practice. if if you focus on those industries, the defense practice it's for obvious reasons when when there are major conflicts like there are now i i in in the Ukraine, in the Middle East, almost throughout the world there's increased investment in defense. But Commercial aerospace has remained extremely strong. You know, both Airbus and Boeing can't make commercial planes fast enough. So we work on a lot of aerospace suppliers. And you you mentioned 3D printing before. We decided 20 years ago to to focus on 3D printing as a niche because if someone's buying a printer, they're they're almost inevitably entitled to an R and D credit. They're either developing a new and approved product or they're gonna start to make a product that they used to purchase. with the the kinds of tariff wars that are going on throughout the world, there are many products that becomes difficult to import because of large large customs duties. So one one workaround is is to make the product yourself utilizing 3D printing. Now in in the beginning 20 years ago all of our 3D printing clients were primarily focused on plastics, toys, things like that. But now that metal 3D printing has become so strong, it's used in a in a variety of traditional manufacturing businesses. We we we published four four three D printing blogs a week, which requires a lot of effort by our team, but that is a major focus for us. And it our our our three D printing articles go out, you know, globally, which may or may not be the reason you learned about us. I just had a visit visitor from one of the Mediterranean countries because he learned about what we were doing from from the blogs.

What is Well, on the energy side, we we have I believe the largest geothermal tax practice in the country. Geothermal has become a a very preferred technology. So we're we're working on geo projects, probably I think we're working on four hundred of them right now in probably thirty US states. and then on the R and D, almost every company is is engaged in Innovating today. Sometimes we get questions from the people that market our our services, and and they'll say, Hey, I have this kind of client. Can this kind of client get an RD credit? And the answer is all companies can get an RD credit. The litmus is not the type of company. The litmus is are they innovating? Are they creating a new and approved product? Are they creating a new and improved process? Or they're doing something with IT and software. If they're not doing any of those things, we can't get them a credit. And not to be facetious, but they're probably on their way out of business. So you know, it's that's that's another thing that needs to be understood. The US R D credit is not not agnostic, meaning sometimes people hear RD credit and they think white lab kind of stuff, but this credit is not focused on that. This

This credit rewards all innovation that's used to to grow a business.

Well the what's fascinating today is I have always looked at every business as having three core activities. One is sales and marketing because you have to obtain business. The other is operations, you have to execute the business that you obtain. And the last category is the administrative accounting, HR, things like that. the Automation of of HR systems and accounting systems, that that took place starting probably 20 years ago. So when I started this business, we we no longer had to spend much time on those activities. You can use third party platforms and easily handle all of those things. Now with AI, sales and marketing is is becoming easier. So what I'm trying to say is that of the three items that I used to think to of every business person's time, two of them, sales and marketing and then an administration i is can be certainly greatly improved with technology, which enables you to focus on your core activity, you know, whatever you think there is an opportunity for. So, you know, what we're seeing now, and it's it's been you know pup a lot publicized. You've got many entrepreneurs now that can can start a company using AI and one, two one, two, three people can develop a big company if they know how to use those technologies.

Yeah, our website for R R and D tax Savers is simply RD Taxavers dot com. And for energy tax savers, it's energy taxavers dot com. Try to be simple simple simple and and straightforward. Frankly, I've never understood businesses that have these mythology names or or names where you don't know by first blush.

what they actually do. So energy taxsavers.com, RD Tax Savers, no no ampersand dot dot com and we we quickly respond to any inquiry and of course you know glad glad to do that I should say because I I'm presuming you have a global audience we work on many non-US owned companies that are starting operations or have operations in the United States. So that's that's that makes it yeah, i it is a global business.

Well thank you for setting it up and I look forward to seeing the webcast.