Consulting Rainmakers

Nobody wins a pitch with the best solution

David Kean · CATALYST ·

David Kean is the Co-Founder and Chair of Catalyst. This Consulting Rainmakers episode, hosted by Mikulas Zach, is about one idea, in David's words: Nobody wins a pitch with the best solution.

Why do firms lose pitches even with the best solution?

David Kean: Most teams spend the bulk of their pitch time polishing a solution that will change anyway. Pitches are won by rehearsing, building chemistry, asking questions and showing the client you understand them.

In this conversation, David explains why most firms lose the pitches they call a must win, why clients are really buying you rather than your solution, and why, with AI everywhere, the human factor is still what wins business.

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About David Kean

David Kean spent his early career in advertising, in roles at Lowe Howard Spink, TBWA London and DDB UK, where he was Business Development Director, then seven years as European Sales Director at Omnicom, responsible for the sales performance of 70 agency businesses around Europe and lifting their pitch win rate from an average of 40% to over 70%. After Omnicom he co-founded The Caffeine Partnership. Having seen how good ad agencies were at pitching, he set out to bring the same discipline to investment banks, accountants, lawyers and management consulting firms, and wrote the book Pitching to Win. He started his first business at about 43, and for the past eight years he has run Catalyst, where he helps leaders and their teams win face to face through pitch academies, coaching and keynotes, and he has written five books on pitching, persuasion, networking and sales. He also created The Trouble Room, a live, high-pressure format that puts people from different disciplines in one room for three hours to work through three challenges together.

Expect to learn the basics most teams get wrong before a pitch, why a close second is simply a loss, why AI can build the deck but cannot win the room, how most people spend 80% of a pitch on the solution and only 20% on the things that actually win it, why people have forgotten how to work a room since COVID, what the finalists of the English-Speaking Union's International Public Speaking Competition taught him about young talent, why he would encourage anyone to start their own business and find partners to do it with, and what kept him going when there was not enough money in the bank, and much more…

David Kean: LinkedIn · Website

Chapters

  1. 0:00Cold open
  2. 0:33Welcome
  3. 0:44From Ad Agency Pitches To Catalyst
  4. 2:33What Most People Get Wrong About Pitching
  5. 4:07The Client Is Buying You
  6. 5:14The Human Advantage AI Cannot Copy
  7. 6:59The 80/20 Rule Of Winning Pitches
  8. 9:19Inside The Trouble Room
  9. 13:03What Six Young Speakers Taught Him
  10. 15:02Leaving Corporate To Start Your Own Business
  11. 19:06The Hardest Stretch Of Running Your Own Firm

Transcript

Machine transcript of the conversation between David Kean and Mikulas Zach, lightly cleaned. Spelling of names and terms may be off.

Mikulas Zach

Today, I'm joined by David Keen, the co-founder and chair at Catalyst. David, it's good to have you here today.

David Kean

nice to be with you Nicholas, thank you for inviting me.

From Ad Agency Pitches To Catalyst

Mikulas Zach

So to get us going, tell me what kind of gap were you seeing? Because you were at Omnicom, then you started Caffeine, and now for the past eight years you've been running Catalyst. So what kind of gap were you seeing in the market that led you to start Catalyst?

David Kean

And what is a very simple one actually at the time, because I used to work in advertising. Advertising agencies do a lot of pitches. And when you're competing against other companies for a client's business and they're very competitive and ad agencies historically have been very good at it. And I figured that if I was spearheading quite effective pitch record at an ad agency, there must be other organizations in other sectors where the need to pitch would be a useful skill. And so I started a business with two other people, which was basically focused on other sectors, other professional advisory sectors. So people like investment banks, accountants, lawyers, management consulting firms, all of whom have to pitch for business and probably weren't brilliant at it and didn't know the discipline of it or how it works or whatever. So I wrote a book. called Pitching to Win. And on the back of that, we started the consultancy and were proved right. There was demand. So, and we built from there really. So that was kind of the genesis of where the insight came from. And it turned out now, of course, many years later, it's a really important part of business discipline. But then it was very nascent and not that many people took it seriously or knew how to do it.

What Most People Get Wrong About Pitching

Mikulas Zach

Hm. What do most people get wrong when it comes to pitching?

David Kean

where do you start? Getting it right. Well, the first thing is, don't get the basics wrong. And people do this all the time. They run out of time, they do everything at the last minute. They don't build any relationship with the client prospect. They don't work out what it is gonna take to win, what that client really wants, not just what's written on the brief. They don't rehearse. They don't... don't marshal the right people, they don't think about the casting, so they're matching what the client is like with the people that are in front of them, they instead look at the expertise they need, it's not always the same thing. They don't follow up, they don't pull ahead with every interaction, they just do all the things that get in the way of winning, even though they all say, we really want to win this one, it's a must win. And then they do precisely the opposite. to deliver that sort of victory. And that's what people get wrong time and time again. And then they all huddle after they get the result saying, I'm sorry, you came a close second this time. And think, well, nevermind. They don't learn anything from it. They didn't come second, they lost. Somebody else was miles ahead of them. And they do the same thing over and over over again with exactly the same result. And so that's why we're here. to stop people doing that.

The Client Is Buying You

Mikulas Zach

You mentioned your book. If there is someone that didn't read it and it's less he is listening right now, what would be kind of your main takeaway from the book that you would like to share with people?

David Kean

Well, if he or she is serious about business development, then they should buy my book. I've got several. One is called The Work Smarter Guide to Pitching, available on Amazon. And it's a plane ride read or a train ride read. And it will encapsulate everything you need to know about pitching. But the big thing is, remember that the client, however rational you think they are, they are buying you. and the promise of a brighter future with you that you are promising to them. And they'll either get you or they won't get you. They'll either believe you or they won't believe you about how committed you are and what you're gonna help them do. And the chemistry that you create with them is the secret. And there is a way of doing that. But have to read the book to find out.

The Human Advantage AI Cannot Copy

Mikulas Zach

Amazing. And y with the stuff that's going on right now with AI and it kind of outplacing a lot of people's jobs, what do you think is the main competitive advantage when it comes to learning and mastering, you know, communication?

David Kean

being a human being, people buy from people. They don't buy from machines, they don't buy, ultimately when you're selling something, you're selling it to another human being. I mean, okay, you can do certain very basic transactional things on AI, but when it's a relationship, which it is in a pitch for a sort of serious amount of money and business, you are trying to build a relationship with another human being. AI will help you make beautiful charts, it'll help write your narrative, but at the end of the day, you have to convince the other person. If it was as simple as just sending the deck and sending the narrative, then why would we bother having a presentation? Or why would we bother getting to know clients before we stand up and speak to them? The human factor in business is still the most important, which is why I focus on helping people win over the room face to face, because that's where the big contracts are face to face. And if you really, really want to be effective at communication, you've got to master the skill of being compelling and convincing in a room with other people.

The 80/20 Rule Of Winning Pitches

Mikulas Zach

Have you heard of the twenty eighty day rule? That have you heard about it?

David Kean

28-day rule? No, tell me what do you mean by that?

Mikulas Zach

No, the 2080 rule, it's from I believe it's the parrots rule. Something like the 20% of inputs create the 80% of outputs. Pareto, yes, yes. so what what how would you apply it to pitching and communication? What do you think that creates the 80%?

David Kean

Pareto principle. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I misheard. Well, most people spend 80 % of the time on a pitch finessing the solution to the client's instructional brief. they use the time to quite understandably focus on their craft skill, okay, to answer whatever the problem is the client's got. And they only spend 20 % of their time, if that, on all the things that actually win pitches. The things that win pitches are things like rehearsing. spending time with the client, getting to know them and for them to get to know you, asking them questions that reveal what they really need and want. If you just go into a little sort of huddle with your colleagues and you finesse the greatest solution you can possibly give and then you present it to them, you've just wasted your effort because the chances are even if they appoint you, that solution will change. And because it does, because when it contacts with reality and real client discussions, once you start progressing the project, then you will probably end up changing the thing beyond recognition. So why would you polish the solution when the solution just has to be good enough that lets the other parts that win a pitch shine, which is you as people, you as a team, how you build chemistry with the prospect, how they believe you. and believe that you get them and understand them. None of these things people spend any time on. They spend their 80 % of time on the wrong thing and they should be spending it on those things that work. 20 % on getting the solution, 80 % on all the other stuff that wins pitches.

Inside The Trouble Room

Mikulas Zach

Right, right. so you have your five books, then you have pitch academies, you also coach people, leaders, and one thing that I found really interesting is that you also built something that you call the trouble room, which is a life pressure simulation of some sort. what was the main kind of idea behind the trouble room and why You created something like this.

David Kean

There are two ideas behind it. The first was we got fed up of turning up at conferences and seminars and things like that where the format was identical. So you get... Somebody opens the ceremony and then you get an expert on stage talking about something and then you get a panel discussion, then you get a coffee break where the only networking that happens is who you happen to be standing next to at the coffee queue. And then 20 minutes after that, when you've just started to get to know somebody, you have to go back in the room to hear another panel and another speaker. Then there's a lunch with more random networking. And by the end of the day, you've spent the whole day sitting in a room staring at a screen full of slides. that you could have quite adequately done at home. And so we got fed up with that. We thought there must be a better way of bringing together people so they network in a way that means something. And the best way to do that is to get people from a variety of different backgrounds, so different disciplines, finance, creativity, investment, et cetera, et cetera, together in a room, working together on a problem. or an opportunity. And that way you break down barriers much better, you get very, very divergent thinking, which is great because it stretches everybody and you get better solutions. So we thought that was one reason why. The other one was people have forgotten since COVID and everyone went online, they've forgotten how to be with other human beings. And so you need people to have the skills to be in a room, to work a room. to read a room, to be able to project and have personality in a room, to build relationships one-to-one with people. And we thought, well, this would be a really good way of putting people in a physical environment for three hours, giving them a set of three different challenges so they can work together, get to know each other, get different perspectives on things, and also build relationship properly. build relationship, not over a screen. So that was behind it and people loved it. We did a pilot in January. It's since been taken up by several organizations that have wanted to do it for their own internal people. And we've got a lot of feedback and we've been talking to loads of people like the Financial Times, like London Business School, Imperial College, all these sorts of people who are think it's a really interesting format. So it's been a great success and people enjoy it. And as far as we know, there's nothing else like it. So the travel room is a high anxiety environment, but once people come out of it, they feel it's been brilliant experience and well worth it.

Mikulas Zach

No, that's that's amazing. and I had a very similar experience being in at a conference. You know, it's sort of like you don't get deep into any kind of conversation, you kind of only it's very surface level. one thing that I sorry?

What Six Young Speakers Taught Him

David Kean

Go on, sorry.

Mikulas Zach

one of when I was looking at your LinkedIn, one of the things that kind of interested me was your story about sitting in the Royal Institution lecture theater, where you were watching the the union's international competition. and given that you teach this for a living, what did you saw? That you weren't prepared for.

David Kean

Well, good question. I think what really impressed me is the finalists of whom there were six from all over the world. Their ability to present a case and engage with an audience was phenomenal, not just as a general standard, but given that these people were school age, so 18 or so. It was singularly impressive and their mastery of the English language, their ability to have fun with it, to play with the audience and sustain cool heads under the pressure of questions from the audience, which challenged their arguments that they'd made in their five minute talk was really, really good. And I think we consistently in business under underestimate the brilliance of young minds. And what's nice about today is there are so many entrepreneurs out there who have decided not to go the corporate route, but decided to build businesses for themselves. And that's very refreshing and much needed in Europe where we need that entrepreneurial culture.

Leaving Corporate To Start Your Own Business

Mikulas Zach

Yeah, and you know, given your background at Omnicom, I wonder how is it different from kind of the entrepreneurial route that you're now taking with running your own firm?

David Kean

Couldn't be more different really. I've always thought corporate life, I haven't been in corporate life for a very long time now. I suspect I'm probably unemployable in that respect. But I think there are some amazingly bright people in corporations, but there is nothing quite like the frisson of excitement. And also the difficulty. of starting your own venture when you're starting from nothing and you either have to raise funds or you have to convince other people to join, including clients and that really focuses the mind. So if you only eat or earn what you personally bring in or your organization brings in, That's very different set of circumstances from having a nice big fat salary and plush offices and a lifestyle that's afforded by that. You are bootstrapped. It's up to you. There's nobody else to blame. And so that's a really good discipline and one that might not be for everyone, but is very liberating. And also you get to say what you actually think. towing a company line or whatever you're doing in corporate life.

Mikulas Zach

Yeah, that's kind of the overarching thing that I see when I talk to people that went from corporate to being their own kind of boss. is that the the bureaucracy that's that's there when it comes to the corporate world and the the freedom of what you can say and what you cannot say, given that you're behind a big organization. so how have you done it if you can take me back to the early days? What what would be kind of your tips around starting your own business if you would have started from scratch today with everything that you know?

David Kean

I would say, I would encourage people to do it. I did it when I was quite late into my career. So I think I started my first business when I was about 43. There are plenty of people who have started older than that. But if you feel it's for you, give it a try. I mean, the worst that can happen is that it fails and you can go back to corporate life or another venture or whatever. But I quite like the American Silicon Valley sort of approach is what have you failed at? What have you learned from it? So that's a better approach than, you failed, which is more European and say you're a loser. That's not really very helpful and not very enterprising. So I would encourage people to give it a go. Find partners if you can, because the right partners spread the load, give you different perspectives. Probably between you, you'll make a better answer. Working on your own is exhausting and difficult. So partners also help bolster you. And I guess the other one would be, don't forget to enjoy it. If you enjoy it, you'll be better at it. If it becomes just grind and miserable, you're in the wrong game because there's no fun in that. So try and see the best side and enjoy what you do. And if you do, it'll be much easier and people will be magnetized towards your business rather than put off it. those are probably my three things. But the main thing is do it because you might regret that you didn't.

The Hardest Stretch Of Running Your Own Firm

Mikulas Zach

Right. No, that's some great advice, I think, David. what was the hardest stretch or challenge that you had to face?

David Kean

staring at not having enough money in the bank account to cover requirements. Every entrepreneur will describe the same thing, where you can't cover payroll or you're worried that the mortgage won't get paid or whatever it is you put on the line. So there are times when it gets tense, the pressure is brutal. But in truth, always a way through.

Mikulas Zach

David, if David, if people would like to continue the conversation or check out the books, what's the best place for them to do that?

David Kean

Have faith. Well, if they want to get in touch, then my email, which do you me to say it or will it go out with the podcast?

Mikulas Zach

I will just attach it in the description, but you can say it. Yeah.

David Kean

You'll attach it. so contact me on the email with pleasure. If you want my books, which is a good place to start because they do cover sales, negotiation, pitching, networking, prospecting, all that good stuff around business development, then easiest place to get them is Amazon, particularly as amazon.co.uk because that's where the bulk of the stock is held and they can ship them out to you.

Mikulas Zach

Amazing. Well David, thank you for coming on. Links are down below so people can click through and thank you guys for listening.

David Kean

Nice to meet you, Nicholas, and thanks everyone for listening.