Consulting Rainmakers

Nobody who drinks their own Kool-Aid survives in business

David Nolan · The Proper Group ·

David Nolan is the Fractional CEO of The Proper Group. This Consulting Rainmakers episode, hosted by Mikulas Zach, is about one idea, in David's words: Nobody who drinks their own Kool-Aid survives in business.

Why do successful business owners lose their company through ego?

David Nolan: Owners who stop engaging with employees and start believing their own headlines see morale slip and the business tumble or get taken over. An outside advisor tells them the truth and gets them back to basics.

In this conversation, David talks through what it actually takes to build consensus for financing a nine-figure public project, why he thinks ego is the most destructive force in a business, and what changes when a company finally starts listening to its own employees and customers instead of its own leadership.

Watch on YouTubeSpotifyApple Podcasts

About David Nolan

David built his career inside Marriott International before moving up to CEO roles at major destination organizations, including a nine-year push to help finance a $500 million convention center in Cleveland. He later transitioned from full-time executive roles into fractional work, founding The Proper Group to bring the hospitality philosophy he learned at Marriott, that taking care of employees is what takes care of customers, which is what takes care of the business, to small and mid-size companies across hospitality and beyond.

Expect to learn why ego is the most destructive force in a growing business, what it actually takes to build consensus for financing a $500 million public project, why David believes 75% of a workforce quietly disengages once an owner checks out, what The Proper Group actually fixes when it walks into a new company, why losing well matters more than winning well for keeping a team together, why David thinks staying relevant today means admitting what you don't know, and much more…

David Nolan: LinkedIn · Website

Chapters

  1. 0:00Intro
  2. 0:53Why Fractional Over Full-Time
  3. 2:43Marriott Roots and Hospitality Philosophy
  4. 5:06Lessons on Managing People
  5. 7:39Common Business Shortcomings
  6. 10:31Financing a $500M Convention Center
  7. 13:39What The Proper Group Fixes
  8. 16:31Biggest Lessons and What He'd Change
  9. 19:28The Fourth Quarter and Losing Together
  10. 22:47How to Connect with David

Transcript

Machine transcript of the conversation between David Nolan and Mikulas Zach, lightly cleaned. Spelling of names and terms may be off.

Mikulas Zach

Welcome back to another episode. I'm sitting down today with David Nolan, the fractional CO Fractional CO at the proper group. David, thank you for coming on today.

David Nolan

Well, I'm the one that's thrilled. I I appreciate you reaching out and it's wonderful to be on your show and hopefully we can make an impact together.

Mikulas Zach

Of course, of course. So to get into kind of your background, you went from being a Marriott executive to CEO at some you know large major destination organizations, and then you transitioned into being a fractional operator. So I guess my first question for you is. What made kind of the you know fractional model like for you like the right call over another, you know, full time seat?

David Nolan

Well, it's a great question and credit to you for asking and especially for your listeners. I think there's just real opportunity ahead of us. Just like anything else, the timing must be good, the market conditions must be ripe. And when you recognize the forces of the economy and the movements that are making, not only in the United States, but but globally, you know, things move quickly. And there was a day and age where a consultant or a professional advice counsel giver Would try to help small, medium, large companies, but it took forever. And so the fractional opportunity is saying, let's react to it quickly, let's put the know-how behind it, and let's not deal with all the junk associated with narratives and long-winded things. Let's cut to the chase. How can we help? How do you make money? And can you solve my pain? immediately. And that's really where I think a lot of the fractional opportunity is going and it makes every good sense.

Mikulas Zach

Right, right. Yeah, I think it's very interesting because there is a opportunity and I think the the best thing about being a fractional CEO, CMO, CFO is that you can bring in like very good expertise at a fraction of the cost and still kind of fulfill that role in a very good way. Tell me about you know, your current position and what do you do?

David Nolan

Yeah, thank you. Well, I as you mentioned, and thank you for that, my roots are in the hospitality sector, starting with my career with Marriott International. And of course, Marriott's global now across the world, as you know, a really fine corporation, you know, well known for taking great care of the customer, making well known for making money and being the best of the best. So that's the roots of it. Philosophically, when you start with a company like that and adapt the philosophy philosophy. Philosophies of the Marriottes of the world, the family, it evolves into what you believe in and carry with you as you transcend into other jobs and other opportunities. So, with that, this is where I think success can breed itself. If you adopt the philosophies of Bill and Alice Marriott and really understand that taking care of the associates who will end up taking care of the customer, and the customer will take care of the cash register. Is a very profound statement. But that's the reality. And so many of our small, medium, and large businesses today are not focused on the customer and satisfaction and employee satisfaction. And that's what's missing, and that's what create problems because the The company that's just saying I wanna get my net profits and I wanna sell out and move it, you know, they're just not gonna succeed. So if you wanna be the best of the best, then that's the only reason to be in business. You commit yourselves to certain values and those values are never Are never given up. It's not that they're non-negotiable. So, you know, in essence, that's that's where I'm at. As I transcended from Marriott, I still love the hospitality industry. And they play a key role globally and domestically in the service industry, from restaurants to private clubs to hotels to resorts. to you know inns, you know, small inns. So that's where I kind of hang my hat. I try to help entrepreneurs, h help small companies succeed. And third party wise, tell them the things that they don't want to hear. And that's what being objective and also being a polite contrarian can be very helpful to the wise owner or the wise manager.

Mikulas Zach

Hmm. I want to stop for a bit about at the philosophy part as it relates to managing people. What have you learned at Marriott that you kind of transitioned into what you do now? what kind of advice would you give around managing people?

David Nolan

Well well you really have to care and you can't be artificial and it has to be a longtime commitment. So you desperately care about what people think, what people do, and how they feel about their environment. And you have to seek out that information. And you have desire to have listening ears on. One of the nice management tools that we incorporated was called the proverbial rap session, RAP. We sit down, I take off the name name tag, they take off the name tag, and we're just people. And we need to be able the one that says, tell me how you're feeling, tell me about what you're going through, tell me about your family. Tell me what your criticisms are. Tell me about how we could get better. And you know, this sounds so easy, but seldom is it done because there's too much caught up in making money. It's too caught up in egos, and that has no place in running a successful business. The managers or the owners that don't want to listen to the contrarian or the voice that doesn't agree with them. Is a loser. And that's where shift change. I desperately want to listen and I want to learn and I gr want to grow. And I don't care how old you are. You could be 108 years old like me, or you can be a young person. You still want to be able to always be in tune with the people that are working with you. And family is easy to talk about, but it has to be committed to because you want to really instill a family atmosphere, a family culture.

Mikulas Zach

Hm. You know, isn't it crazy that the best practices always

David Nolan

No.

Mikulas Zach

comes in kind of the easiest things to do, but at the same time they are the hardest. Like as you said, caring for customers. Like there are lots of it's easy if if you say, you know, to care about customers, but at the same time it's very hard, I think. And a lot of people have trouble around that. I think what's also interesting are the shortcomings that comes with operating a business. What would you say are kind of the most renowned ones?

David Nolan

Well, I think that I think the largest one is controlling your PL statement and making sure your financials are in order. and you really have a budget process that's really, really in sync. You know your margins, you know how many hours you're budgeting by category, by position, and you in essence know what you're doing. You know, the classic statement, if you don't know where you're going, all roads will get you there. And that's not where you want to be in small business. You want to know if we get up every morning and know where I'm going and what we're about to accomplish. So if you don't have a strategic plan, if you don't have your financials in order, and if you aren't studying all of those key components on a daily basis, you're gonna lose sight of what's important. In the end of the day, it's the controllables that you're controlling, and it's the things that come up. That you're taking a long look at, and you have a budget process, you have a forecasting process, and you're analyzing your labor cost, in my case, food and beverage cost, across the board, rooms cost, overhead cost, you know where you are all the time. Because once you have a control of your financials, that dictates the course of action. Because that's where you get in the problem solutions business. And therefore you're not finding yourself like, my gosh, my gosh, we're not making it. I'll not cutting it. So you got you need to incorporate that and you have to be involved in the community. You have to understand who your competition is, and you can't let the business tear you down. It's you y I get, you know, the it often comes up, well, I c I I'm too busy, I can never get out. Well, that's going to come back to haunt you. Because if you're not engaged in the community and you're not active in the community, and you're not engaged with your even your competitors, you're losing sight. So operating on four wheels and knowing where you're going, it's like, well, that sounds pretty easy. But it doesn't get done. And that's why you see bankruptcies, that's why you see it consultants coming into play, because you just lose sight of it. You know, I want to in the restaurant business, we have owners that just say, you know, I want to go around shake hands with people and just, you know, I own this place and I'm a big deal and you know, let me buy you a drink. It's like, really? That's not what it's all about. It's about taking care of your people and it's also about making money. And that's not how you behave when you're an operator.

Mikulas Zach

Hmm. talking about you know earning trust over a long timeline, you led a nine-year push to finance a five hundred million dollar convention center in Cleveland. So how what did that teach you in terms of earning trust over a long period of time? Because you know, that was a huge deal, right?

David Nolan

Well, it's a great question that you ask, and it's very profound that you would even look at it that way, which is a again credit to you. it comes about because as you develop a stro a strategic plan and you have stakeholders involved in in my vernacular, I call them champions for the cause, you're laying out that roadmap that I l alluded to before. And once that strategic plan is is put together. You've established directional priorities that coincide with the goal. And you know what one, two, three, four, or five, those are my marching orders, those are my priorities. And as you go about that, you'll learn very quickly that consensus building and cultivating these champions for the cause is the key to success. So if you want to build a billion-dollar project, or if you wanna build a half a million project, You're in the sales business. You have to begin to say private sector, public sector partnerships are the key to the war chest. So is that local mayor need to be involved? Yes. Does parliament need to be involved? Yes. Does Congress need to be involved? State officials? So the partnership is built based upon consensus. And once you have consensus, everything comes easier. You know, because then yeah, we're gonna have to raise, you know, a half a billion dollars. How do we do that? Well, you have another strategic planning session. You're spending a lot of time cultivating people like, well, if we increase food and beverage tax, how would you all feel about it? You know? So we're selling benefits. In America, what's going on across the world is investments in in data plants. You know, should people involve invest in data? Well, what if you don't? Well, we heard long and hard for the last month that we're only, you know, a footstep ahead of China. And so if we don't give up on that and if we don't commit ourselves to the inevitable, you either decide you're gonna lead or you're gonna follow. Proper group is about meeting with people and saying, We wanna lead. If you wanna be a follower, we're probably not the firm for you. But if you want to lead, great.

Mikulas Zach

Hm.

David Nolan

Here's the deal, we'll be able to help. And mind you, help. We're not the doctor, we don't make the cure happen. We're the ones who get the individuals to see the vision and then commit to the vision and we're a partner in their success.

Mikulas Zach

Hmm. W what do you usually kind of fix when you start working with a firm?

David Nolan

What do you like? What excuse me, what do I take? You mean cost?

Mikulas Zach

No no no what what what no no what do you fix in terms of the business that you're working with? What are some of the you know commonalities that these companies that you work with have when it comes to yeah?

David Nolan

Well, the common the commonalities is the ones that cross the board that, you know, you think you're doing well, but you don't. You aren't in tune with your employees and you have a morale issue. You're the owner of a business and you're the architect of the business and you've been successful for fifteen years. But all of a sudden you've taken the foot off the pedal and you've forgotten. And you're not talking to your people anymore, you're not engaged in the business. And you know what you find out? That 75% of the workforce is pissed off. They're not enjoying what they're doing. Where are you? I'm playing golf. I'm up doing rugby. I don't know what you're doing. But you're not engaged anymore. So I think that I think the I think self is very destructive. Ego is very destructive. And once you start drinking your own Kool-Aid, destructive. you know, that's the problem. When you start believing you're bigger than you think you are and believing your own headlines, you know, it tumbles or you get taken over. And so every day, a game. If you're a rugby player or if you're in soccer, man, if you want to be in the World Cup, it's like, man, I gotta perform. I gotta perform. And that's why some of these, you know, you take the the biggest stars in in soccer, they perform, but they're out there all the time. So, you know, these things sound, you know, maybe simple, but in execution they're not. And that's why it's helpful to come come in to have a third party, like the proper group say, we're not here to stroke your ego. We're not here to make you feel good. We're here to tell you the way it is. And after we get done interviewing your employees and your customers, we're going to tell you what they think. And most often it's not what you think. And so your business can turn around if you get back to the basics. You want to be in a position where I know where I'm going, I'm taking the right road, and I know I'm going to stay on that road.

Mikulas Zach

With all of the hinds that you have right now, what would you do the differently?

David Nolan

Well, I I think I made a lot of mistakes. you know, I I did nine hotels with Marriott. Number one, I would have never transferred that many times. You know, transferring takes, you know, a lot out of you. And I think getting cemented into a a a city where you have relationships as time goes by and life becomes more and more significant. if you want to be a mercenary. and just go from, you know, or an I or an itinerant pastor going from site to site. You know, it may be productive for the short term, but the long term, it is about relationships. So number one, I probably wouldn't have accepted. I wouldn't have my kids accept many transfers. I'd play I'd wait it out and become part of something bigger than yourself. Number two is I would have studied more about financials. And really cause I'm a sales guy and I'm a manager, but I think really really understanding, you know, money and how it's used more so than just generating revenue, bringing it to the bottom line, but how private equity firms work. How does, you know, EBITDA numbers really impact the bottom line? You know, what is your take home? What kind of margins? So I would have spent more time understanding financials. I think I have a pretty good grip on it now. But like I said, I'm 108 years old. So my time is gone. I'm not really 108. but so I would No, I hope And then you know I think I think the rest of I think the rest of it is say, man, it's a changing world.

Mikulas Zach

Yeah, I I was about to ask you. That I don't think that

David Nolan

I mean it's crazy. The w the conventional ways you used to do things. I think you have to outreach to people like yourself who are young, you know, brilliant, and they have answers that it's like, man, I didn't first of all I didn't even know that stuff was available. You know, all the software programs coming out, all the artificial intelligence, or now Donald Trump wants to call it S one. it's it this is this is something that keeping on your toes is important because You don't want to become a relic. And to stay relevant takes work. It does. You know, I it it does for me. I mean, I'm not naturally a tech guy, but I have to I'm committed to trying to learn as much as I can and then be smart enough to say, man, I don't even know this stuff. I gotta find somebody that does. I go on, but that gives you enough stuff.

Mikulas Zach

Yeah, that's good. That's good. And so what's next for you, Dave, in terms of your the vision that you have? i

David Nolan

Well, we want to keep the t we want to create you know, the proper group going. And so, you know, we want to help people. You know, what do I want to do at this stage of life? And one day, believe it or not, you'll enter the fourth quarter of your career. That's a heck of a long time from now, but you will end up in the fourth quarter. And when you get to that fourth quarter, you have a whole bunch of wisdom that you've acquired through trial and error. And the greatest teachers that ever changes and chisels you is from what you failed in, not what you succeed. I can't remember really my successes. I you know, I was just yeah, I did some nice things. But I remember my failures. And my failures shaped me. and rounded me. And I said, so what's next is saying, well, this is the my fourth quarter. So I hope that I can help a small company. I hope that I can help mentor, you know, young people to be excellent at what they do. And I think fundamentally they need it because the work ethic is missing. the quick fix is running rampant. And you have to get back to values. And if we lose sight of the values not only in our homeland, but values in the workplace, it's gonna be hell to pay. And so that's what it is. The successful coaches, be it soccer, American football, NBA, they're always getting back to their values. What is important and makes us win. And I think my final point is you have to be able to know how to lose together. It's not so important you know how to win together, but it's how do you lose together. And that's where the rubber meets the road. In business, we're loosing. How do we hang together? Or do all of a sudden everybody go their way and abandon ship? So if you want to build a strong team. You'd build it around those values and be prepared when you lose. You're not gonna have donkeys, you're gonna have people that wanna keep forward. In my my day, they were called blue chippers. They're people with great attitudes, they want to go for it, and you rally around those type of folks.

Mikulas Zach

yeah, I think you made a great point there about the success and the failures and that you really never kind of appreciate as much the successes as much as the the failures and you I if I recall through my short life I only remember the bad times never the good times and it's very interesting how kind of the human mind works and If there are people that would like to get in touch and you know continue with the conversation with you, David, what's the you know best place?

David Nolan

The best way? we we you're in a different country, but here'd be like make your nine one one call, which is you know emergency services. So the emergency service that I offer would be contacting me by email, Dave N at the proper dot group, my phone number four eight zero three four zero one nine eight. Or just yell really loud and I'll try to put on my listening ears and I'll see if I can track them down.

Mikulas Zach

Okay, well I will leave links down below and Dave thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom.

David Nolan

Well, it i credit goes to you. And you're smart enough, you're young enough that you got the whole world ahead of you, and you're starting off really, really well by asking great questions, setting people up for success, and continue to drive forward. And that's a credit to you. So, you know, I applaud you on what you're doing, what you're trying to achieve. You're gonna be successful. I gotta already see it, and you make the most of it and go get

Mikulas Zach

Thanks, thanks.