This coach only gets paid when your sales go up

It's my pleasure, Mikael. It's good to meet you.

That's a good question. I'm not sure I was ready when I actually started. I think that came sometime after that. But what caused me to do it was I had a young family at the time. And certainly in the UK, food retail is a very, very hours demanding role. So I was sometimes leaving the house at six in the morning and not getting back and not seeing my youngest. I only had one child then. not seeing her at all for maybe four or five days on the bounce and I thought this is wrong. And then also as a senior person in retail we did spend a lot of money on consultancies and it really intrigued me how if the consultant gave us some advice and it didn't work we still had to pay and it was our fault. That just seems morally wrong as a model. So I just wanted to do something a bit different and get more time with my, I've now got three children, get more time with my one child at the time.

So I think when I said I wasn't ready, I thought I would be a very good consultant and a very good coach. But I realized that's only half and it might not even be half of the battle. What you need to think about is where is my market? Who's going to buy this? what's it worth to them? What does it do for them? Not, I'm a great coach, can I come and see you? What does great coaching get you as a business leader if I'm coaching you? So it's that first period with me sitting there thinking, I'm great, so the phone will ring. You can't do that. You've got to get out there, get you a bit like yourself with your podcast. So the first six, eight months were very quiet. and I realized, well, I didn't have a plan to actually get contact with clients. that would be my biggest piece of advice if starting off. you got a product and do you know who's going to buy it?

biggest misconception. I don't know if there's a big misconception. think the thing that refreshes them the most in terms of they go, wow, really, David, that's interesting, is that rather than provide coaching and send a bill for coaching, what we do and what I do is work out what will improve in their business as a result of coaching. So rather than saying, do you want 10 coaching sessions? If you're saying, I don't know, do you want your sales to go up by 10 %? Do you want your... net margin to go up by 0.5 % and then what we do is we guarantee that so we say actually we will do some coaching but you'll only pay for the coaching when you get your 10 % or when you get your half percent on margin and people find that really refreshing so I guess that leads us to answer your question. The misconception is that you get coached and you sit down and you are coached and you learn some things and absolutely going sure there's a bit of that but actually what it really is about is you behaving in a way that gets you closer to your goals. So I guess that's the misconception that people have.

Definitely and I am a big fan to be honest I use AI myself to help me figure things out as long as you get your prompt really accurately and you tell it what you want to be coached in and tell it things like give me one question at a time and then respond to my answer rather than I'm a big fan but what it doesn't do and can't do and I don't know when the day will come that it will be able to do is it can't notice a flicker of an eye or a hand gesture to the mouth that a good coach will notice and then come back to the words you were saying at that point and say, tell me again about misconceptions, Nicholas, because that's interesting. And the coach will have spotted something in the body language demeanor, the way their eyes are moving and know how to hone in. So I think it's almost like being a skilled conversationalist in what is not being said. And I think AI at the moment needs something to be said. So I think that's the differentiator. But I'm not, I think it's brilliant. I think it's brilliant. And I think the main benefit to me is I think coaching in the way we do it, the people who would benefit the absolute most in society are the least likely to be able to afford it. So big corporate companies can afford to pay for coaching for their executives and deliver business results. But actually the average person on the street, to use an English term, can't afford it. And actually AI gives them an option there that's free. It's not perfect, but it's far, far better than no option. So I think that's the beauty of AI. And that's something we're looking at at Rambutan to say, can we do something with that so that we can encourage people to use it? it depends on your style, but it's a thinking partner. It challenges you. gets you to think about different alternatives that you haven't thought about. I think that's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

So we are all accredited coaches. So I'm accredited with the International Coaching Federation. So they have a framework of best practice, if you like. The main thing that we take from that is there'll always be a contracting session up front, like a chemistry contracting session. So I think it's really important that the coach and the coachee really feel that they can work together. So we do that free of charge because that allows us to not take the assignment as well because it's about the coach and the coachee agreeing. So always be that. And then the contracting bit will always be around some really stringent discussion around. what are the objectives we are working here? We absolutely clear together that these are the objectives. And then what are our rules of engagement? So, for example, confidentiality will be a big one. Bizarre because of your example of AI. one of our ground rules is probably going to be that we don't give advice. So as coaches, we do not advise or give answers. So we will challenge you to think so. We get all that set out in the first session so people really understand what the experience is. And then the format is basically start each session, remind ourselves of the objectives that we're working on, remind ourselves of the ground rules, pick a subject within those objectives, explore it, close down the coach. E then goes away and does some things before the next session to put some things into practice and brings back any learnings, reflections, challenges from that into the next session. So the next session starts with objectives, ground rules, and then how have you got on with the things we were talking about last time, Mikael Hauss. So that's how that's the general format. That can take the format of at its longest. sort of 12 months, maybe 10, 12 sessions over a 12 month period of about 90 minutes a session. But equally it could be really short because the person might have a very specific objective. So if their specific objective is, I've got my first ever presentation to the executive board and I want some help putting it together, well, that's not gonna take a year. That's gonna take a session, couple of sessions. So once you're clear on the objective, know, the duration of it. And then the other thing that goes into our process is, any insight that we can gather that would help. So I might ask you, have you had a recent 360 degree report that I can look at? Have you got any psychometrics that I can look at? Are there any people who you'd like me to speak to as coach to gather some feedback that will really help our journey together? So you try and get some inputs onto it as well. As regards to what each session conversation goes like, I must have had 20,000 of these over the last 30 years. There's never been two that are I mean, I'll say similar, but only very marginally similar, all completely different. Because as a coach, you are reacting to what you are hearing and what you are seeing and what you are feeling, and you're not giving advice. So they're all completely different.

What would my young bidet not understand? What a great question. I think younger David would have gone into a coaching assignment with a plan and of sure it would have the ground rules on and it would have the objectives but then there'd be a plan for the session. And that I think was a comfort blanket for younger David. And I remember thinking, I hope I've got enough to last the 90 minutes. Because they're paying for 90 minutes. And that's the fact, they're not paying for 90 minutes. They're paying for a business improvement. And if that business improvement takes one minute, and they genuinely get a business improvement, then you've saved them. 89 minutes and they got their improvement. So I now I go in with a blank sheet of paper. little, lots of thought and then read the notes from any notes from last time. But it's not about filling the time or filling the space. I had a coaching session on Monday and we were 10 minutes in and I asked the coach, he's a managing director of an engineering company. And I asked him a question and he said, let's just stop there today. That is the most profound thing I need to think about. just, like 10 minutes. It hadn't occurred to him, nobody had ever asked him that question before. I think something you sent me before was about, in the run up to this, you said about things where you see things that others don't, or I see things that others don't. I think coaches see things that others don't. And that carefully placed question makes the person go like, I had to hit them across the head with a... a heavy object they go whoo and if they're saying stop after 10 minutes younger David would have gone no no I've got your book for 90 I need to do something else now and it's like no you don't you don't need to do anything else it's not about time that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. an interesting anecdote, and I don't know if it's the same in your country, but this one gets said in England a fair bit when talking about the subject. It's like, if you went to the dentist and you were going to get a filling and the dentist said, it's 250 euros for that filling. And you said, how long does it take? And he says, a minute. you'd probably say I'm not paying $250 for a minute in which case the dentist would then say I can do it I can take longer if you like I could take an hour if you prefer it's like why would you do that and think it's that and and less is not less is definitely more in coaching definitely more I love the way you put that it's definitely more Sometimes it literally is just creating a space. I've got an example for you actually. my coach, one of the coaching courses I did to become accredited, there was a person on there who was one of the tutors. And there was quite a few people with probably about eight different languages spread across a group of about 15 people in the cohort. And this person was, the tutor was demonstrating a technique. And the person who was, mother tongue was German, was in English, then he started struggling. He said, I don't know the German struggling, not the English word. And she said, just speak German. So he carried on speaking German and she just held the space and was nodding. And then he said, he said, it came back into English and said, that was incredible. That was incredible. That was really helpful. I didn't know you spoke German. And the tutor said, I don't. So she was doing nothing other than holding a space, but showing physically like you're doing now that she was listening but she wasn't listening and interpreting or anything because she didn't understand the language. That's an extreme example I grant you but yes that space that less is more.

Mmm. It's the outcome, it? It's the outcome. In your example, is the car beautifully clean and are you happy with it? yes, well that's what you're paying for. It's the outcome, not the input.

So there's two parts to that question. The first part is how did I learn it, I guess, which is I read a lot of books and lots of the books I read were around the subject of emotional intelligence. And depending on which book you read and which author, they're sort of, generally speaking, there's an agreement that the key pillars of emotional intelligence are self-awareness, one. self control or mastery to awareness of others three and control or mastery of others four. That's kind of the key building block. So I read a lot. I read a lot about how to self reflect, how to be self aware, how to listen to what you're saying to yourself. And I got into the habit of doing that. So after an event, anything really, whether it be a social party or a coaching session or whatever, to just stop and go, let's just reflect on that. but not judge. think taking the judgment out of reflection, going, that was awful, I did a really bad job. That's not helpful reflection. That's helpful reflection has been specific. So what did I say? What reaction did I get to what I said? What was I thinking? How was I feeling at the time? How was how I was feeling reflecting in my body language or tone? So I read a lot and I would recommend, if you're going to be in my world, despite the fact that you don't give advice, you need to be a prolific learner. Because there are so, for every book I've read, it tells me that there's another 20 I'll never get a chance to read. Because there are so many books in this space. But leadership, could build a small city out of the number of books on leadership, All varying opinions, all brilliant. So I think keep on. Keep on learning and start with books around you. Start with books around yourself. And then the second part of question is, what do I do now? We actually do training as well as coaching and we teach self-reflection. And we teach it in the context of the UK. We teach in a healthcare setting. So there is a global movement, not a Rambutan movement, a global movement that's proven the link between medical outcomes and people being kind to each other. It's called civility saves lives. So it's proven that in a hospital context, this is global data, not UK data, if there is a culture of poor behavior where people aren't speaking to each other effectively or maybe they're swearing at worst or shouting. that that causes the other person on the receiving end's cognitive ability to reduce by 61%. So you're in an operating theatre and there's a patient on the table and you're screaming at someone, swearing at them and then you ask them how many milligrams of morphine do we need? Well you've caused that person to have 61 % deficiency in their mental ability to answer that question and that is proven has caused medical problems and death, how we teach in that context is we say the first thing you need to do when you're self reflecting is notice what triggers you. So it could be at work, could be driving a car, it could be someone cuts in front of you in a car park when you thought that was your space. Notice when you're triggered and then analyze how you're feeling and you literally analyze it by saying, I've noticed I'm feeling frustrated about that other driver. And then you're realizing that if you're feeling frustrated or angry or many negative emotions, is you accepting that you have a 61 % reduction in your cognitive ability. So whether or not the other person's right or wrong to do whatever they did, if you keep that frustration, you are a lesser version of yourself until that frustration's gone. Especially if you need to do things like think, logic, clear. If you need to have a fight, it's fine. because it doesn't shut that part of the brain down. If you need to run away, that's fine too. You've got adrenaline in your system. It's designed for that. But if you're not having an actual fight or actually running away, you're impaired. So notice when that happens and then analyze the thoughts that would keep you in that state. And they're often, I refer to them as the two Achilles heels, they're often where you're applying judgment. that's just Nicholas he always does that that's a judgment so if I'm say that about you I'm gonna keep frustrating with you because I'm judging you it's either judgment or it's justification I can't believe he said that when I got up especially early today to get into the office and whenever you're doing that to yourself you hold on to the negative emotion which as we've said is impairing you. So that's an actual process that we teach en masse. We've trained, I think we're approaching 10,000 medical professionals in the UK as part of this program. yeah, it's something we're very, very hot on at Rambutan.

Well, if you, if it generally is the Rambutan website, so www.rambutan.biz. If you're interested in that particular subject, there's a case study on our website that talks about that very training that I'm talking about. And there's also some podcasts about it on there and some blogs on there. So if anyone's genuinely interested in that subject, look on the Rambutan website, first call or look on the Rambutan website, find my name and click email and just ping me an email and I can send you some stuff.

My pleasure, great to see you.