Why a new CRO will never fix your sales

It's my pleasure, McCullus. Thank you for having me.

Sure. so I spent a lot of time in corporate corporate America, if you will, corporate world and working for SAP, Oracle, a number of technology sales leadership roles. I was actually when I was leaving SAP in twenty twenty, it was a good time. We had a lot of change leadership. I decided I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I wanted to kind of Do an entrepreneurial endeavor. And so I decided to open up a consulting company. And my first client actually was a small tech company in Atlanta, Georgia, doing CCM software. And so about three months into that contract, they gave me equity and asked me to be a full-time CRO. So I officially had one client and I went back into a CRO capacity. Did that for a couple of years and then a $400 million private equity backed services company, global IT services company, asked me to be their CRO and they were partnered with SAP. And so they offered me quite a bit of money, quite frankly, which is why I did it. And it allowed me to get back into the SAP ecosystem. And so I did that, and where the where I guess the tipping point was was August of 23. I decided that I I've been successful. I want to be significant. And quite frankly, I was working 70, 80 hours a week, you know, working for private equity organizations, looking at organizations that weren't necessarily ready to scale and had these big goals set, but they weren't ready. And I realized that I wanted to do it for myself. and do it do it in an entrepreneurial manner versus doing it for for in a as an employee. And you know, I looked at it and said, you know, the I now the last two CROs, people hire a CRO and they say, it's the magic bullet. It's it's this person's gonna take us and scale us. And you know, we get that quite a bit. And what they what they What both of those roles didn't have was they didn't have sales process and discipline. They didn't have forecasting measures in place. They didn't have training and enablement. They didn't have the right product market fit, ICP positioning, you name it. And so I spent a lot of time building versus actually scaling. And what I realized is most organizations today say they're ready to scale, and they're really, they're not, right? Maybe They say sales is stagnant. We need a CRO to come in and fix things. And so these growth challenges, when we when I come in now, I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I just mentioned, right? Like do you have ICP clearly defined ICB ICP ideal customer profile? do you have a product market fit? Do you have the right pricing and packaging? Do you have the right sales incentives and compensation plans? is the organization aligned? know there's there's more to it than just looking at it and saying we're ready to scale or we w we need to fix sales. so that's kind of how I got into it. since then we've expanded I brought in so the other thing was when I when I I decided to reopen the consulting company after I left Evale the first thing I noticed was I had six clients right away through my network that wanted me to To either be a CRO forum or work with them. And it was great, but I was all alone. And as an independent consultant, I'm an extrovert. I enjoy being part of a team. I enjoy building something. And I said, okay, how do I scale this? Right? I can't do it. I only have so many, so much time in my day. And I was fortunate that a gentleman, Bill Ryan, was looking for his next chapter in his book, if you will. And I said, hey, we should do this together and and go from there. So we immediately we co-founded Big Wheel Performance, the S Corp on top of the LLC I'd already had, and started taking on new clients. We were fortunate to be successful with a couple of tech companies. And then as a result, we said, okay, how do we continue to build it? We brought in another friend who we'd known for a number of years who was a CEO who just exited a company. Who also had CRO, CEO experience in private equity. So we brought him in. And then since then I've added a couple of other operators to the to the organization as well. So I guess that's the that's where we're at today is now we've got about seven operating partners and mostly on the CRO side. so the revenue operations, sales marketing, customer success. and our whole thesis is is grounded in being capital efficient, investor ready. So whether you want to exit your company, your business, or whether you just want to continue growing it, we believe that putting the right systems and processes in place versus just hiring more people is the way to do it in an efficient and an investor ready quote unquote manner.

Sure. So you know, we also say growth is an engineering discipline and it kind of goes into the the revenue engine scenario. So when you're looking at, you know, all all the you know things I just mentioned, ICP clarity coverage architecture, your process discipline, your revenue operations infrastructure, can you determine You know, what your sales cycle length is, your conversion rates, you know, do you have linearity in your business or is it lumpy? You know, is your pricing and packaging right for the for the for the market and industries, your forecast governance? Can you do you have predictability right in your business? And so the if you're putting all of these and you're at looking at all of these, then you're really kind of looking at creating enterprise value. And and that enterprise value is really created when that effort converts into a predictable revenue efficiently and repeatedly. And so that's what we're trying to do is set up these systems and processes to create this revenue engine. You don't need just, you know, a CRO. You can pretty much kind of put anybody into that position as long as they follow the process. And that's that's how you scale a business in in in in an efficient manner. is you have the systems and processes, the documentation, the the clarity. and and that's and you don't have to go and hire a bunch of people and then put in a bunch of cost into the business. Does that make sense, McCullus?

Sure. So first of all, you meant you asked the question about what do people typically do? And they'll either A, they'll call us to be a CRO, right? They're going to change their CRO, which is why the chief revenue officer tenure is about between 17 and 19 months. They change them all the time. Okay. So that's the magic bullet they think is going to fix everything. or they'll hire more salespeople, right? And so we just need what we need more sales. So let's go hire more salespeople. people and and we'll get more productivity from that. And and you know, that's again another common mistake, quite frankly. Or we'll buy another tool, AI. AI will fix it all. Right. Like, so or a new marketing solution, right? we just need to go buy this marketing platform, or we need to switch to this CRM, or we need to go buy this intent data, or you know, et cetera, et cetera. so it, you know, generally speaking, There was a and it and it all and I'll say, we need more pipeline. Everybody needs more pipeline, right? And so, you know, the the the question is, is it good qualified pipeline? Is it predictable? Right. And if it's not, if you don't have those systems and processes in place as well, right? So you can go and hire five salespeople, but if they're all saying the same thing or or saying different something different and pitching differently or or or going to a different ICP. there's they're not going to be successful. You just added five salespeople. you can add pipeline. That's easy, but is it good pipeline? Is it qualified pipeline? Is it heroic pipeline, right? Is it rest on one deal? Or is it predictable where you're continuing to build you because you have product market fit and you have understanding and and in the in the in the industry. And then quite frankly, your CRO. Are they a builder? Are they or are they a scaler? And we're fortunate we've done both. so that's I think that's what separates us from a lot of other if you call them operators out there, is that we're looking for people that can not only design and diagnose and design and build your grow to market engine, if you will, but also operate it. And so there's also times when I'll actually operate, you know, I've got clients right now who are on this the if you quote unquote fractional chief revenue officer for them. But I'm also building out their hub spot, their, you know, entry and exit criteria and stage sales stages, things of that nature too. so I've advised them on that, consulted, designed it, and we're building it and I'm operating it at the CRO level. So that's you know, again, most people will try those three things, but they don't look at the actual the the infrastructure to be built first and foremost. And that's what we're really good at and differentiate is we go and actually look at what's broken underneath. And we always there's a, and not to run on, but there's a a slide where the iceberg, if you've ever seen it in a business class, you see the iceberg above the water, but all of the ice underneath is what you're missing. And it's and it's pretty common, right? You can see struggling sales or lack of growth, but you don't see All of the things I mentioned before, you know, ICP, PMF, product market fit, you know, maybe they don't have the capital they need to do the things they're doing, and clarity and vision and path, especially in smaller organizations. I also see this McQueelis, which is first-time founders, CEOs have a history and a propensity to chase everything. And so I always go back to, can you do it? Yes. Should you do it? No.

Right, ask the next question. You because they'll say, we can do it. We can do this. And then all of a sudden they're now they're serving 12 different industries and their product has become you know, a Frankenstein, if you will, and they're wondering why they're not getting, you know, scale as a result. So these are a lot of things that we see as as what a what a CEO or founder will do and and what they'll try to solve it with. And what our differentiation is, it's not just saying, hey, we're gonna go add salespeople. We're actually gonna build an engine that can run with us or without us.

It's it I I'll I'll j that's a great point, McCullas. And I'll and I'll and I'll share something with you. I said something as yesterday. One of our operating partners has created about three billion dollars of valuation in in the in the industry. So he's he's been a CRO for five first time founders and CEOs. And he's exited three different companies in multiple exits at one of them. This is a gentleman who I learn from every day, who's fantastic and and and extremely skilled and talented. He's helping me design the HubSpot infrastructure at a client today because he's rolling up his sleeves and getting things done. So he hates when someone calls him a consultant. He's an operator. He executes. And and that is the difference is you can get you can find a lot of people to tell you what to do or how to or how to do it, but you can't get a lot of people to tell you how to do it, what to do, and then go and help you do it.

Sure. So I I again we we start with what is the design in the system look like? What's the process look like? Do you have one? AI is not gonna AI just cr accelerates. So if you lack a process, if you lack cohesive alignment with sales marketing, you know, product success, et cetera, it's only gonna accelerate the noise and the friction. Right. So start with the making sure that you have the dip the process in place first and foremost, then layer in AI. Right. So AI is incredible. Right. The the fact that we can use anthropic and open AI and GROK and Perplexity and all the other LLMs I haven't named and and help accelerate some of the the the menial tasks in our day to day. Like I can do research now about a company in minutes, right? They would take me hours in the past, or whatever my my search results and and reading could could leverage. But now I've got the ability to do, you know, pre-call briefs, you know, I can do I can do automated outbound, right? But if the if the if the narrative, if the messaging in isn't set up correctly and and done the right way, the AI only accelerates the noise or the or the distraction, if you will. So start with the process and the design and make sure you have that first, then layer in AI. Layer in AI and all the things that you can do to to strip time and create efficiency. Whether it's again, I mentioned pre-call briefs, outbounding, even f first first level customer success right if if somebody needs help and ai can can hit the knowledge base or the the repository and give them answers that they need before they have to actually talk to somebody most of us all we're looking for is really just the result right that's what we care about in the in the most efficient manner using it to create product or I'm sorry PowerPoint presentations right design things of that nature There's so many different uses that you can that you can leverage, but again, you have to what I call the blocking and tackling, you have to make sure you have the infrastructure, the process, the engine in place first to then bring AI into the mix.

All of them, quite frankly. no, I mean, I think what we I I think I mentioned at the beginning, I start I started this because I've been successful and I want to be significant. So I I'm proud of all the things our our company has done. I would say, you know, we've grown, you know, CCM companies 100% over three years or not less than three years. we've done We do a lot of turnarounds. And so, and what I mean turnarounds is right right now I'm working with an organization that, you know, again, they're doing well from from a perspective of they're growing, but they're not getting scale because they lack you know, forementioned infrastructure, process, et cetera. the coming in doing that is is already making huge huge huge results. if I were to To probably talk through one, I would say. there was a client that we worked with in in California. you know, they had not sold any new logos in a couple of years. And, you know, they were just continuing to work on expanding their existing base. And we came in and they had you know, big goals and hired a bunch of people as such. And so they were burning cash and and we came in and immediately put the right people in the right spots, right size the business, and created a better narrative, did some and did the enablement around the sales, sales team. And now they're, you know, generating, you know, between 10 and 12 new logos a year. And this is enterprise sales. These aren't transactions, right? So these are million dollar, these are million dollar deals. So Not having had a new logo in five years to go to 10 and 12 now the last couple of years, and and we've been removed from it for a while. we hired the head of sales who's now running it. And, you know, again, great success there. So our goal is to is to leave it better than we found it and get scale. But, you know, again, we also want to make it a a situation that it'll last with who whomever we put in the seat, it'll continue to sustain, if you will. So and that we've done that in every one of the I don't even know how many clients now, twenty five, thirty clients we've worked with over the last couple of years.

I think it depends. First, I I don't want to say I think I think first of all you you have to make sure that it's the right candidate and background and experience for that company. So one well and I I mentioned this earlier. Are they a builder or are they a scaler? Right? Are they going to be able to execute Get their hand roll up their sleeves, get their hands dirty, if you will. or are they just looking to, you know, put the, you know, put the right levers in place and the and it goes from a scale perspective. So I think mo I wouldn't say a good CRO or bad CRO, I would say more the fit and the background, the experience of that particular individual for the organization's maturity level. So I would say that would be something that I would look at first and foremost. And I'll expand on that a little bit to say a lot of our clients, our founders, CEOs, et cetera, are always looking for somebody in that industry. I want somebody who's done enterprise sales, but in this specific, call it telecom industry. And quite frankly, we always ask the question. Do you have subject matter experts already in that industry? Yes. Okay. So does this, do you need somebody who knows how to do this, or do you want, you want a you want a salesperson? I mean, are they is this person going to be a seller or are they going to be the the CRO? Right. And so it's making sure that they're actually looking for the right fit is going to be, is going to determine a better propensity for success. Have they done this before? What's the maturity level of the organization? What are you looking for that role to do? And once you have that alignment, then you'll generally find we have better CROs in the spot, in the seats. And that's one of the values that we bring when we come in and we and we help them. You know, our goal is this is to diagnose, design, build, and then exit, right? We're not, we I don't want to operate in there forever. I want to transition it to somebody. And so part of the exit strategy is we'll help you find the right person, right? We know that you still need a builder. We know that you need somebody now to scale the business. The the the industry experience, that's a that's a bonus. I don't, that's the last thing on my mind, quite frankly, because they have you have subject matter expertise in the industry. And and this person can easily uncover the the industry knowledge more than they can understand how to build or execute. Or scale a business.

So when you're talking, I mean, well, AI, I I would say is we're it's untapped at this point, right? So it's it's going to be, I don't know if we've ever seen anything this transformational. and and yet we're not even using AI at the level in many organizations that could benefit from it. So I think if you're looking at it from the perspective of if you're just doing meaning you know non-strategic, non-thoughtful tasks, those those roles will be replaced. Right. If if and that's why we talk about that's what RPA and that's why you look at manufacturing industry, right? Taking this and moving it over there can be replaced by robots and and autonomous intelligence, if you will. But like If I'm looking at it from the from the perspective of where where I see it in the next couple years, I still I still see that we're not going to be where we are. But well, I I take that back. I mean, I'm I'm proven wrong every day by AI and what's out there and what's what's what's what's capable. what one of the things I I would say is the next big thing, AI is here. And if you're not embracing it and you're not using it and finding ways to benefit from it, then that's gonna hurt you. So I I can't say I know what it's gonna be in you know three years, five years because it's moving at such a rapid speed. So just make making sure that you're trying to keep up with the pace, that's that's honestly that's not an aha moment. That's not a revelation or some amazing trend, but We're using it every day in more and more activities and it's just gonna keep continue.

you can go to www.bigwheelperformance dot com. You can email me at Fred.soler, S O L L E R at bigwheelperformance dot com. And I'm happy to have a discovery conversation with you at any point in time.

My pleasure, McCullus. Thank you for having me.