The $2 million change order nobody plans for

Cool. Thank you for having me. So really looking forward to talking to you today.

Yeah, it's been an interesting journey. I I think my background, I'm I'm from Arizona in the US. And I think I started a a career in parks and recreation. I've always loved being outside and and being able to create community spaces and and building that. And so out of college, I started working as an assistant rec manager in a a place called Oral Valley, Arizona, running summer camps and and doing inclusive programming. And it took me about A week into the job to realize, you know, I think I really want to be a director. I want to be able to help create these spaces. I wanna help create the policies and the procedures. And that kind of launched my career into it, where I decided let's let's dive right in. And spent about 17, 18 years as a parks, rec and facilities director for a little bit in Wickenberg and then most recently in Gilbert, Arizona. and had just an incredible run in that career and and loved every second of it. And Gilbert, which was the place that I last worked in, you got to a point where we had built a lot so quickly that it really felt like the right time to be able to start What does that next chapter look like? And I and I think that was one of one of the hardest career decisions I probably ever had to make because most people never advise to leave your current job at the top of your game when when everything's going so great and so well and and all the accolades and all the awards and all the great things going on. But you lead to a point where it's like, what's next in this next part of my life and what kind of legacy do I want to leave behind? And I felt like we'd kind of made our mark in the Parks and Rec field. And I can tell you right away, I was actually on a trip with my family. It was July 4th weekend. It was the first time I'd ever been with my family in July 4th in about 14 years, because I was always working. And I had taken some leave and and we were walking down the street and I watched all my kids holding hands down this parade route. And I gotta tell you something just kind of hit over me where it was like, you know what? I think it's time to look at something different. In the background, I'd always been building this mentality of what Carmona Collective could be one day. And it just sort of, I think, accelerated that timeline to be like, I I think the time is is probably now. And shortly thereafter, you know, a few months later, kind of put in the groundwork to start Carmona Collective and and sort of make that transition in my career.

Yeah, you know, I think so it's a four-tiered approach. so when we when we really looked at Carmona Collective, there's four different divisions within it. There's Carmona Strategies, which is sort of that strategic planning, master planning, public-private partnerships. So that's where we work with everywhere from local governments to private businesses and nonprofits as well. And look at those strategic plans and master plans, whether they be five-year, 10-year plans, whether it's sort of merging the public world with the private world on large capital projects, construction projects, all the Way down to just minor agreements that are happening every day. So our main clients right now in those fields are still those government agencies and not just within parks and recreation. We work at city management, public works, economic development, planning and zoning, all the way to developers in that space. And that's really what we do within Carmona Strategies. We also have a Carmona Leadership Division. That one more focuses on keynotes, education sessions, and leadership development. In a lot of my years, I've Worked with a lot of consultants and a lot of times you'll have strategic planning, you'll have master planning. But I always felt in my career that you always left with a potential plan in place, but you never really learned how to build the people up to go carry out that plan. So the leadership side is really built upon how do we also, you know. invest in the people behind the projects, the people behind the strategy, the people behind those those aspects to get them to the levels they need to go and to help teach along the way. So that kind of really embodied Carmona leadership. So we do a lot of education sessions, keynotes, and organization organizational development work with companies. because I think In culture, you know, we all get so busy that sometimes we forget that team dynamic in culture. And that's always been something I've been very big on is making sure everyone's voice in the room is heard, that we have authentic connections and that we can connect at all times together as a company, because it's so quickly to lose that sometimes. And then we have Carmona Ventures, which is the third division. That one's really I've always been a big idea guy. I've kind of been a little bit of a risk taker. And so it's those big bold ideas where we partner with other companies and groups who have a big idea or something in mind that they're trying to get Done. And then what can we bring into that equation to kind of help get them there? So I'll give you one quick example just for fun. There's a company in Arizona called Terrain Hopper. And if you if you've ever seen a terrain hopper, it's an off-road mobility device for people with accessibility challenges or disabilities. And the owner, the CEO, is one of the best people you will ever meet has has the right intentions, the right ideas, and his goal is to make sure that more people have accessibility to trails overall. And so being able to partner with someone like that and understand how we can get them into that market and and develop in that market means that more people get to experience trails for the first time than they ever did before. So it's it's ideas like that that we get excited about within ventures. and then last, which isn't necessarily a work function, but we we started a foundation. So we have the Carmona Foundation, which is that fourth tier. and that's more personal to to me and my family and and my wife and I. we started the foundation because we're foster care parents and we have been for the last eight years, and and we really wanted to make sure that we could provide financial assistance for foster care families, the foster care placements and the biological kids, so that we could create a system in which families get everything they need financially, but also everything from health care and wellness to sort of that community feeling to make sure that people continue to be foster care families, just knowing the kind of stress it brings into people's lives.

So that's kind of the holistic view of all of it together. It's a lot of work, but I and I think that's probably why you know I question myself how crazy we were when we first started it all off. I think a lot of people probably would center around one of those activities to start. and my mentality from the start was to really do it holistically in the way that we want. I want to be able to cover all four of those areas because I think they're they're important to building an entire portfolio of being able to help people. And I think that's really what it all comes down to. My biggest desire is to serve and to help. It's why I spent so long in local government was that desire to really serve and give back to the community. And I I wanted to make sure when we started Comorna Collective, it wasn't just a business, that it really was a business. That also continue to connect with the community. So kind of by doing all of those different routes, we were able to make sure that we really still connect with communities all across the country. Cause I never wanted to be transactional. I don't want to go into a place and do a strategic plan or a master plan and just take off and never talk to everyone again. When we invest in that community, you wanna be a part of it, you know, from there moving forward.

Yeah. You know, I think the biggest thing is just listening and caring. And and I I can tell you every day, I always feel in every project, a lot of the most needed things that you invest in are the things that actually cost the least. And that listening and caring from the beginning, a lot of times we jump into wanting to build community and we have all these big ideas of what that community needs. And really a lot of it has to do with learning about that community and actually engaging in it, understanding. What are their stories? You know, how did they get there? What are they proud of? You know, what do they want to see into the future instead of just our ideas of going into a place? You know, you gotta learn where it's been, where it's trying to go, and then weave all of those things with those creative ideas to build that community. But at the end the day, it takes a group of people that care about each other and the end result more than they do about themselves. And I think that's really what kind of goes into building community overall. But it starts with are you actually engaging and listening and really building a connection with people?

Yeah, you know, I think I've had the real benefit of working with some amazing consultant groups throughout my career. And I think that's actually probably what got me excited to go this route, right? Because when you're building all of these projects, and and that wasn't just in Gilbert, that's across my whole municipal career in like parks, rec facilities, trails, you know, streetways, bridges, everything you can think of. We had the ability to work with everywhere from architects to contractors to project managers to consultants. And I think what I always did was try to take bits and pieces from every single one of them that really brought some great ideas to the table and then mix them with some of my own thoughts and ideas of of kind of how we went about that project. And I think one of the things I kind of caught on to in the beginning was how organized the project is in the very front before you even start talking about anything is so important. I think a lot of times we don't take enough time scoping items in advance of those projects coming up. I always kind of say the construction a lot of times the easy part. You know that part I don't want to, you know, simplify it, but the construction side tends to be more of, okay, we're just going to get in there, we're going to follow the right plans. You got to trust the experts that they know how to get it done and built. The biggest challenge is how do we get it built from a standpoint of are we building the right stakeholders into the process? Are we having the right conversations up front? And do we have the right business case when it comes to are we going to be able to maintain it five, 10, 15 years from now? When are these items going to need to be replaced? What kind of revenue do we need to pull in from this project to be able to be sustainable? And then, you know, at the end of the day, who are the people that we need to be working with throughout the process to build the right business plan? And then how does that that information all contained together. And a lot of the times it lives within, you know. five to six different consultants and all of this information is spread out. And so one of the things that we've been doing, which I thought was really important to the process, is being able to speak the language of the project owner. So I've been in the shoes of the Parksman director. I know how to be the project owner of that or the or the city, you know, city management. But then being able to speak the same language as the contractor and the architect and the project manager. And how can we be a collaborative piece that helps guide all of those people into the same sort of business case that we're all Going around the same sort of ideals and things that lives throughout the life of a project. So it's not so much that people are missing it, it's taking the time up front and during the process to make sure that we're all after the same goals. And if those goals change, are we actually tracking them? And then when the project is done, or is it a successful project? A lot of times we cut the ribbon. Everyone's excited, you're off to the races. So often we forget what's that going to look like five years, 10 years, 15, 20 years from now? And are we telling the clients in advance what type of investments they're going to continue to need to make to keep it looking like it did in day one? And so that's I think what really I think in capital projects, that's what got us really excited to be in sort of the capital project planning. Is now we're helping the clients. who are the project owners in public and private realms, but also the contractors, architects, and PMs to kind of create a cohesive group together moving forward in that process.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think once again, it's getting to know those groups. It's understanding what type of language the landscape architects speak, what drives their decision making, and how do they interact in a room with everybody else? And it takes a little while to key into what those those deals are. Because the landscape architects aren't always going to be wondering, well, what's the council and the board going to feel about this? They're they're looking at the project, they're looking at You know, what's going to make the most sense from a architecture standpoint. So then how do you start to build in the language they look through a lens through, but then build in an aspect of the stakeholders and the boards and the engagement and being able to share that language right back to them so they can understand why a decision may make sense to go in a different route because of that. And so it's it's more like I always look at it as respecting everybody in the room. You know, I never look at ourselves as the subject matter expert in every single topic. You know, the best plans are always surrounding yourself with those subject matter experts, but being able to connect all the pieces and the dots to kind of create that puzzle. And then you have the most successful project moving forward. And I always tell people if we can take that time up front to really have those conversations and build that together, guess what you don't have moving forward? You don't have as many change orders. The project stays more on budget. There's not a misalignment in goals. Because there's a lot of times that you'll see projects get halfway there and they're like, wait, we did not talk to a certain stakeholder. And then when you talk to that stakeholder, you realize, okay, that stakeholder in particular needs this to be Look this way instead of this way, and all of a sudden you have a $2 million change order that starts to come into place. And so it's it's slowing everyone down the beginning to say, let's really walk through every part of this process and have ownership of it. And then how do you keep that information together? So we're big on sort of the data compilation of everything. Instead of having 15 different documents you're working from, can we create cohesive client portals and dashboards that kind of keep all this information cohesive that can live on through the life of the project? And I haven't seen that utilized as much in a lot of these settings. Kind of the subject matter experts all have their particular areas, but how do you bring all of those areas together into one so that the client and the project team together are always speaking that same language moving forward?

Think we lost you for a second. Sorry. Yeah, you know what it's sorry, the the storm clouds are moving in so I can I can see them. so it's really can you create a system in which all of that information is together?

Because part of the biggest problem is you need to be able to share that information with a board over here and then a council over here and then a different stakeholder group over here. And you want to make sure that that information is staying consistent and then the feedback that's coming from it is all maintained within a system that people can easily access. And a lot of times we just lose sight of it because when you're doing 12, 18 month projects, that can get very tiresome and a lot of conversations go into place. So how are we best tracking all of that? decisions that were made throughout the way to kind of get us where we're going. And if those goals start to change, are we tracking those throughout the project?

Yeah. Well well, and I think I think that's part of the challenge, is you have to I always kind of say and I I always tell People, you never want to be perceived perceived as a threat in the room either, that I'm not going to pretend like I'm the best at knowing how to build a structure or how to exactly to design the architecture. Our specialty and our our kind of design is we know how to work the room in terms of understanding who the stakeholders are, what the boards need, what the councils need, what the funding mechanisms are, and how do we relate all of those items back to like maintenance and revenue and projects so that the construction experts, the architects, the You know, the the people that are doing those sorts of works are able to go do their jobs at a expedient and good pace without having to worry as much about that. And to me it's sort of it's a sign of respect of I know that you know what you're doing. And we build that level of respect amongst each other to say if we keep all of us moving in these same directions and we work together on this, we're gonna have a better product at the end. And that's gonna lead to repeat customers, repeat clients. It's gonna lead to a happier client at the end of the day. And that's really what we all should be working towards.

Yeah, I see it a lot. And it it's continuing to grow. And I I think what's interesting is when you're working with governments as well, they're still sort of working out the frameworks of how AI interacts with the government framework. And in the private side, it's probably adapted to a little bit quicker because there's less public accountability for some of the things that you're working on. So in the use of AI, one of the things that we we always kind of look at is what are the allowable policies that The if you're working with government clients, what are their policies amongst AI and also with the private side? Because I think understanding that first is really important. So as a as a brief example, if you're using a note-taker app and you go to a meeting in government with a note taker app, chances are they do not want that because it's all public record when you're doing note-taking apps, and it leads to a lot of complications long term that Are really not as needed. Whereas the private side, if you if you log into a private meeting, there's probably like five or six different note-taker apps in that same meeting if you have a group of consultants. And so it's really understanding what is the best case use for you and the client and what's allowable. And that that's kind of the start of it. And then when you really start to look at how it's brought into projects and how it's brought into the different data sets, it's making sure you sort of have a uniform option of what sort of AI resources everyone's using. And then you also want to make sure you don't just have a copy and paste job. And I think that's the thing I always tell people is like AI should be used to help summarize, it should be used to help clarify a few things. You don't necessarily want it to create the voice of the project that you're trying to build because you need to make sure that that's unique to that different culture of that project and that group and that client that you're working with. And I think a lot of times sometimes it's it's easier to pick up on, okay, that that was a a very clear AI sort of statement or message. but I think adding in how do we build in the real culture and the information of what's being said and needed with AI can be a time-saving resource in in some you know aspects. And how do you best merge those worlds together? So I think everyone's, I think, trying to tiptoe and dance around when's the most appropriate time to bring it in in a particular setting and case. And in the in the aspects of like data collection, you know, you also want to make sure security protocols, what what does everyone, you know, need for that? So you're not giving improper data as well.

I think you bring up an interesting thing there because I probably I probably have an opposite one where I tend to the reason I like some of the note taker apps in general is because it gives me more of a chance to connect with the client, with the group in the room without having to worry about the retention of information quite as much because I am

I'm not always as detail-oriented some of those aspects. I like the connection, which is why that leadership piece of like I need that authentic connection so that I can really understand where someone's going, where they're trying to get to, where they want to go. And the note taker apps can sometimes help with that. And the other thing it does, which is kind of interesting, and I'm sure you've experienced this, is the way it kind of generalizes tones in certain conversations or or sort of understanding. That's probably one of the things I found most fascinating is even if you use it against yourself and you're like, speaker one, you know, may have had a particular tone in this, and you you start to be like, that was me. You know, how was I really approaching this meeting and how was how was I perceived in this or writing style? And so I I think part of it is also it can be it can be very humbling to also understand how you're being perceived in some of these, you know, whether it's through AI or the people in the room, like your writing style, your verbal style, your communication style. I've actually found that to be kind of helpful in in some of the delivery of like, you know, understanding where I where I could improve deliveries down the line.

Yeah, you know, we have quite a bit. And I I think that's the most exciting part is when you have the four different divisions, you have a lot of different ways to really touch people in different sectors of life. And I think that's kind of, you know, one of the more exciting parts of the way we structured it is no day is completely the same. It really does. Every day is is is a different challenge and I think in terms of marketing, so you just kind of mentioned that you hate seeing yourself, you know, or hearing yourself, seeing yourself on the podcast. I'm the same exact way when it comes to the marketing side of the house, even when we're trying to outreach, like I am not a natural salesman and and I never have been. I'm I'm more of the type that like I want to execute and I want our work to be able to do the talking. And when you have the teams talking about the social media and and this and and the pictures here and the videos here, I'm like, I I don't want to see myself in any of them. if we if we can avoid it because I I'm with you. I kinda hate seeing it. I just love to do the work with the people. But you start to really look at, okay, well, you have to step out of your shell a little bit, which I'm sure you're experiencing with the the podcast, right? That you don't want to hear your voice, but to be able to do it, you gotta step out a little bit and take a little more risk and and be open to that. So I I find myself doing that a lot more. So even talking about the projects that we're involved in, I always tend to shy away from it, right? And it's like, you know, you kinda put it off to the side and you try to to build, okay, I really have to talk about these more in this this new world. And I think that comes from government. When you're in government, everything you do, you always say, this is really because of the council, this is really because of town management. You're always deflecting as to everyone else who's been involved in every project. rightfully so, because those are the leaders of the organization and and when you're in your own company, it's sort like I can deflect to some people on my team, but there's less deflections. But long story, you know, getting around that. Some of the current projects, I mentioned the terrain hopper one. Earlier, I'll just bring that up quickly because one of the things we're doing is building a pilot program across the country to try out the terrain hoppers on the trails. And when you think about what brings you joy, right? I already mentioned that the CEO of the company, Todd, you couldn't ask for a better human being. He he started designing these because he's been in a wheelchair scooter his whole life. And when he got married, he tells the story, you know, so eloquently better than I will. His wife really wanted to go to the beach, and this was several years ago, and they went down to the beach and he could not go into the sand or onto the beach because his devices could not get him down there. And what came out of it was the terrain hoppers. And now these terrain hoppers can climb stairs, they can go to the beach, they can go in the snow, they can go through water, they can do all these things. And it's amazing what was built just from that desire of wanting to be able to do that and realizing I want to be able to create this back. So In doing these pilot programs, you're building business cases to say these are why these should be in state parks and national parks and local parks, so that anyone with an accessibility or disability challenge can go experience the parks the same way the rest of us do and do it with your family. And you don't necessarily have to have an accessibility or disability. I'll give you a quick example. If there's someone who just doesn't feel as comfortable walking on a trail, you know, if you're if you're elderly and you want to go out with your grandkids, you can hop in one and go at a really nice pace, it's all electric, and be able to walk with your family for the first time in a while and be able to experience the trails. And the feedback that we get throughout this process, these are all life-changing testimonials that people provide back. And That uplifts you every day to say, this is why I want to keep doing this. This is why I wanna keep, you know, believing in this product, because you can see it can be life-changing. And and beyond that, one of the other ones I'll just mention, there's a a park in Arizona. And it's a it's a beautiful park and and they're they're trying to get it built and and doing all the capital planning for it. You're really getting into the community and doing the community engagement side. You know, what do the residents want to see from it? What is the long-term goal of this park? Because it's gonna be a game changer for the community that really is an opening gateway to driving additional businesses, additional economic development. Cause the park's gonna basically be able to show, hey, we're on the stage now. We want to invite more people to travel regionally, we want to host larger events. And being able to walk through the maintenance, you know, maintenance items, the revenue items, the capital planning to make sure that we're not missing anything that boards needs, that council needs, that these stakeholder groups, the users group, being able to put that all together and then put that in the hands of the the contractors and and architects to be able to design and build something. Like I said, just kind of builds to that you're you're creating opportunity, you're creating spaces. And I think that brings a lot of joy to some of the work that we do. Just as two, kind of to to give you a few examples.

Yeah, so we're we're on social media and our website. Everything kind of refers back to at Carmona Collective. websites, you know, Carmona Collective dot com. my emails, Robert at Carmona Collective, and and everything we do is is pretty much through those those channels, along with the foundation. Everything can be found through that. And I I didn't mention that as much earlier, but you know, I always think it's important to have, you know, something special you're also building to to give back in these processes, which is why that kind of started through there. But we love the collaboration, we love the connection with people. And that's really what drives what we've been building at Carmona Collective. So we always love to talk to new groups, new clients, new businesses who are who are trying to to build something, you know, in their own communities, their own businesses, whether it be leadership development, whether it be an actual strategic plan or project, or whether it's just they have an idea that they want to bounce around and and get some strategic guidance on.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me today.