The client type that quietly kills small consultancies

thanks so much, Micah. Is this nice to be here?

Okay, so I'm an ex-digital director. I also have ADHD, which is very, common with founders as well, I'm sure. And where did it all come from? I run a company called Sweet Spot. And what Sweet Spot do is basically use social media data, social listening data to understand consumer behavior now. and interpret that into things that can make more money in the future. So that would be category planning, would be content planning, would be, yeah, anything where really understanding your customer a lot better in their behaviors now would make your business just so much better in the future. And more recently that has also applied to things like AI queries because people are now looking up lots of questions obviously on AI more so than search engines. And you can learn a lot about people from that. And I work with quite great, sorry, quite big businesses and head of categories, head of marketing, that type of thing to do it. Where it all started was I worked Tina's shop and marketing agency and And I worked with a strategy team and I sat Tina big white room that I'm sure all of us have sat in the big white rooms. And there was papers all up on the wall of all of these different insights. And I asked, where do all these insights come from? And they sent, know, through me Mintel report, which was 60 years old and said that's where they come from. And this is common in the practice. I just couldn't believe it as a digital director, I'm very much data driven. So it was very much a case of how can this work for an activation for next year, when it's already six years old, it's gonna be seven years old by the time it comes up. Consumer behaviors change massively in that time, I knew that from looking at all the different things in terms of purchasing online around FMCG and this is when FMCG just started to look at digital since 2016. So anyway, I went away and I thought, no, this is a challenge. We need a better way to understand consumer behaviors. And I just started looking into social listening and started to use the tools. So I asked my director if I could get a credit card to go on to these different tools and see what I could find. And I ended up working on a very big project with William Grant who looked after who have like Hendrix gin and Glenfiddich and all the rest of it around social listening and finding out so much about how people use these, not just these brands, but the category themselves, you know, the emerging gin opportunity back then, you know, how people were drinking whiskey, why were they buying whiskey? All of these things came from social listening and you can understand how prolific social media is now. We've got so much more data now. than ever. It's the biggest data source in the world. It's barely ever referenced as a quantifiable thing. So what I do is a little bit outside of the norm, a little bit non-traditional, but if you're willing to go there, there are so many opportunities in that category. And I've worked since I've worked with Müller on what is happening to milk in terms of losing sales because of instead of they thought vegans and Jeremy Clarkson, but actually it was more around lactose intolerant scaremongering and the opportunity that was coming up with protein. I'm now working with lots of other brands. I've got a wine brand. I've got lots of snack brand. I've got lots of other brands that I'm helping from a category based perspective so they can be thought leaders. And I've also done quite a lot in terms of like automating social content and all of that type of stuff through consumer behaviors as well. That's a long answer. I hope that helps.

Social listening is a bit of a rabbit hole and I've been spending 14 years now looking at it and building frameworks around it. The key thing is not to kind of listen to the noise, which is what brands are putting out there, influencers putting out there, but to really look at the comments. Comments are absolute gold and that's where purchasing behaviour comes from. Because people will say... when can I buy it? They'll say, can I buy it in this format? Can I? There's all sorts of questions that come from there. I would also say it's not necessarily about jumping on every single fad as well. It's about understanding as things grow on social media when they're hitting the mainstream. And again, these are kind of formulas that I've developed over the years to kind of understand, you know, what is an emerging fad, what is an emerging shift, what is an emerging trend, and it's really important to distinguish that, for example, matcha, which originally was a fad, I identified as a shift four years ago, and obviously now we know it's everywhere. I suppose for listeners who really want to do it for themselves, it's like I said, look at the comments, look at the comments, think about the product or the category that you're trying to analyse and understand. And you can glean so much just from not even using any tools, just looking at the comments for yourself based around specific keywords. Yeah, that will give you a huge amount of insight.

Well, I was a digital director before companies even knew what to do with digital directors. I started being a digital director when I was 24 head of digital. So very young age. And people didn't really know what to do with digital. It was kind of right. Here's a thing. We know this is happening. you need to go make it happen. So I've been a bit of an entrepreneur within the business and sub worked in any way. I've had to grow my own departments, grow my own companies, even within agencies. So the shift to being an entrepreneur is not unfamiliar one. But I would say what is unfamiliar is the fact that you don't get a paycheck every single month on the dot. You know, getting used to the fact that you kind of from the nicest way possible. eat what you kill. So, you know, it is literally a case of not just being extremely good at what you do and having something unique and, you know, going out there and shouting about it and being passionate about it. It's also you have to be a fantastic salesperson on top of it all. That was a shift, most definitely, because I always thought I was a good salesperson internally with internal politics and with clients, but it's very, very different when you don't have the agency name to work from. You've only got your own name, own reputation. And at first, you're very, very protective, I think, of that name and reputation, because that's kind of all you have. But as it sort of moves forward, you realize that you need to kind of risk it a couple of times. and you need to go out there and you need to say some things and not necessarily mainstream and, you know, That's a big shift as well. However, the flexibility of being and having my own business is fantastic because as I mentioned before, I have ADHD. So nine to five really doesn't work for me. I tend to get up at five o'clock in the morning, do loads of work, know, take my son to school and then decide to have breakfast for an hour and then sit back down and you know, I can choose. I can choose what I want to do as long as I've got the work coming in. And I can choose when my brain is working and when my brain is not. It doesn't have to be on a nine to five. Most people have their ideas, you know, when they're in the shower or whatever it may be. And that just means that I can, you know, like many entrepreneurs, I'm sure jump out of the shower, get the nearest pen and paper or mobile or whatever it is and jot down a million ideas. You know, it doesn't have to happen on the clock. So. That's a nice thing being in control of your own destiny is a nice thing once you can be in control of your own destiny once you set up your pipelines once you understand where your work comes from then it's kind of a case of how do I want this to work? How do I what's the word? How do I work to live rather than live to work? think that's the most important thing for me in being an entrepreneur is being there for my family, having that flexibility and doing fantastic work I really enjoy and it takes time to get there but once you get there it's a really great feeling.

Hahaha It can be, it can be, but I've learned over the years, I've done the eight to eight, I've done the 14, 15 hour shifts. And I think you learn to be optimized, you learn to optimize yourself, you learn that one hour's really good thinking can overcome a whole 14 hour shift if you are completely focused and you're on it. And it's about learning when you're on it and when you're not. And just optimizing your time in the best way possible. obviously AI helps massively with that, can't say it doesn't, right? Everyone uses AI to do that. but at the same time, yeah, it's about knowing how you work best and the balance of how you work.

Hahaha Yes, yes, I have my notes app to handle the time I've learned how to do the voice activation on my notes and I've got so many notes on my iPhone of like this idea or this for this client or whatever it may be when it's a long drive.

I'm an ex-digital director, so I know about funnels and I understand how they work and how much reach you need to get in order to get conversions and how much those conversions are worth and et cetera, et cetera. So I took that thinking into my business and I do do outreach. I tend to do very niche-based outreach. I don't do scatter gun, that really doesn't work. It's more sort of, I have a specific... solution for your challenge rather than kind of I might have something to sell you, which I never think works. And that's taken a lot of testing and optimization. I'm still not there and I'll never will be there. But I definitely have an idea of, you know, what my funnel looks like. So how many people I need to talk to on a weekly basis, how many calls I want to book, how many of those calls are likely to convert. And that's really when you can sort of Create your own destiny if you like, because then you can kind of say to yourself, well, this is how many clients I can handle this month and I need X number of calls to do that. need to go to X number of people in order to do that. That has been a journey. I've spent far too much money and been in too many, know, halls listening to people to do that. And yet I do know digital. So goodness knows what those founders feel like who are starting from the beginning and are very complex about it. In fact, I speak to a lot of founders and I help a lot of founders set up their pipelines and things like that because it really has a massive question mark over it in terms of like, and you really can get taken for a ride with it as well. It's not as difficult as everyone makes out. It's just time and consistency. that really make it work. It shouldn't be hugely expensive either. It's just about understanding that formula really. And then from there, it's just, you know, having a great relationship with the clients you get and them referring you and, you know, having conversations and people interested in what you do. And, and then it's just about getting yourself out there. So, you know, it's about attending those events when you don't know if you're going to get anything out of it, but just getting those relationships together because six months down the line, two years down the line, this random person will WhatsApp you and say, do you know we were talking about that? Well, now Tina, job now I need to look into this. you still do this? And I probably get that about 10 times a year. So that's what I would probably say in terms of I'm never going to stop. I'm always going to find new ways. But that is the main thing that sort of keeps my business going.

Yeah, I have many of my own in Chachi BT. But on top of that, I'm also work with Claude with clients because one of the things I've been trying to do normally with insights, you get a big presentation that sort of goes nowhere and no one's able to really understand it or get excited about it beyond the first presentation. And then it just kind of goes nowhere. And even though you get paid, it's not the greatest feeling. So what I've been doing now is working with clients to build insights and consumer behavior and demand systems into Claude. So they can have these things internally. They don't have to come back to me for every single question to question every single insight. They can ask Claude what they need and then they can build their own sort of category planning, content planning systems based on the nuances of whatever it is. So the retailer focus, the the commercial focus, whatever it may be. And then I'm just there to kind of update the insights, help them add, help them optimize it, sort of using my backgrounds, the digital director to sort of systemize the process. And I think this is where AI comes in really handy. I've always got a thing of 80 20. So AI will get you 80 % of the way there, but please don't ever copy and paste what it gives you. Like the 20 % is really important. 20 % you would never get to in the past as well because you're too busy doing the 80%. So the 20 % which is the human side of it, I always say is the polish is the thing that makes it magical, makes it perfect, makes it have that human nuance, which is, you know, human creativity, human critical thinking, and human criticism. The three C's and those things just really structure something. So it has that connection, that human connection. It's not just AI reading you rubbish. know, I post on LinkedIn. Yes, I use AI. Yes, my ideas go in. AI spits out what it wants to give me based on the rules I've given it and the tone I've given it. Do I have a copy and paste and put it straight in? No. I'm always tweaking it, changing it, adding little things that I think would make it better. Would I have ever got to that point if I didn't have AI with the time I had? No. So I personally think that's how it should be used. And even when I develop systems, cloud systems, AI systems for clients, I always say, this will take you 80 % of the way there. your human team needs to do the rest interrogate it add the criticism add the creativity you know all of those things

So what people tend to do is either book via my LinkedIn, which is on my Calendly link. Anyone that doesn't have book an appointment right there on their page is missing out on a lot of leads. So make sure you do that. I also have it on every single one of the posts that I post on LinkedIn. And I've got quite a few leads on that as well organically. Otherwise they're sort of going through my outreach process. And if they say they're interested, then I'll send them link. From there, I tend to just send them sort of like a bit of a pre-warm email, which is just, hey, you know, this is me, really glad that you booked with me, you know, here's some testimonials, et cetera, looking forward to speaking. Because that kind of gets the whole, this is what I do out of the way. So on the call, I can get them to, this is how I'm gonna help you. And I can listen more to them. Like you say, with an AI note taker, I don't do any meeting without an AI note taker. I have to context is king when it comes to, you know, understanding how conversations develop and what you can offer clients and understanding the challenges and problems that they have. So that first call for me is more about listening, understanding what are their commercial problems at the moment? Where do they feel that they need things fixed? A lot of conversations right now are based around systems, demand systems, and also based around future category planning and how can I get more reach from social? How can I get it consistent and not just have to rehash or redo it all the time or money, more time, et cetera. But yeah, basically on that call, just sort of surfacing their main challenges that they're having or internal discussions with a lot around, know, geo and AI queries and all that recently. and just kind of, yeah, just saying, I get that this is how I can solve it. And then I always say that I'll send you a proposal after the call me 24 hours, obviously using the AI note taker as a way to make sure I capture all of the new ones. Cause you don't capture everything in the moment. Put either proposal template that I put together again, sort of 80 % of the way there. I check it the 20 % make sure I'm happy in terms of it. I'll send it in 24 hours. And then I just have a bit of a keep warm process really, because I find with the clients I work with, they don't rush. So even if it's very urgent on the call, it's very unlikely it's going to be urgent in terms of getting it across because they have to go get budget or whatever it may be. So it can be months. So then what's so important is not to go, I've had the call, I've sent the proposal, yay, they're in my pipeline, the money's in the bank, the money's not in the bank. so what you've got to do at that point is just keep them warm as with the follow-up process and just kind of, you know, how's it going? Da da da, you know, no checking in, please. No, no sales speak like they're humans. So, you know, don't speak like AI or sales professional. It's just literally a case of, you know, great conversation. Here's what I picked up on. Let me know when you're ready to explore this. And then later on it goes into. are you still having this conversation? Is this still a challenge, etc. For me, it's never good to be pushy. It's always I'm working by your time, not by mine. When do you need this? And how can I deliver it in the best way for you? Whether that's right or wrong, and other people take a different approach, that's, you know, entirely up to them. But morally for me, I can say reputation is one of those things I really like to protect. And if I run into that person, it's a very small world, I run into that person at an event and I've been pushing them every single week to give me an answer, that's not a good thing. And it's more than likely you're not going to get the work because, you know, and I automate some of that warm up, that sort of cute warm process as well, further on down the line. I do it personally. And then as they kind of slip away or I feel they are, that coupon process is more sort of automated with me checking the emails. So yeah, that's kind of how really

Interesting question. What are you letting yourself in for is probably number one. Number two is there's no quick fixes. You tell yourself that it makes sense in your rational brain but when it gets to crunch time and the money's not coming in and things aren't working and you have a little bit of money left in the bank, don't believe anyone when they say that there's a quick fix, there's an overnight solution to this. It don't exist. It is very easy to fall into that trap because I have. I suppose the other thing is just, yeah, I would say the other thing is I was, when I first came out of agency life, I was like, I'm going to help the startups. I've worked with the big brands. I understand it. I'm going to work with startups, the ones that don't have much money so I can give them the experience that I've got, but you know, get them there faster. I hate to say it, but the smaller the client, the harder it is to get paid. and the more they want out of you. And that's something I've learned and I wish I didn't learn that and I wish that wasn't the case, but fortunately that is the case. So it's kind of look at what you do, how unique is it? And, you know, really think about what you want to learn from it, what you're worth, because I made that mistake as well. And now I work with very big brands, head of category, head of content, head of marketing. head of commercial and I do very large projects. So yeah, that's probably what I would have told myself is know your value and don't be scared to go out and talk about it and share it. Because yeah, that's quite a frightening thing when you first come out of agency life.

I would say it's about being adaptable within your business. I started out going, I do social listening and I can help you understand why your sales are going up, down or wherever they're going. Since then I've adapted to, you know, AI queries. I've adapted to building AI systems. I've, you know, adapted to not just working with brand, but working with category and understanding category a lot better. I think it's just kind of looking at the market and sort of saying to yourself, well, where is this going? And how can I adapt myself to the market rather than saying this is what I'm selling and this is all that I'm selling. And I think that was kind of the lesson learned over the years, but I have an ADHD brain. So I'm like, yeah, cool. Okay. Give me the next challenge. I'll solve it. I'll figure it out. That's all good. So they're all interested in that. Right. Okay. That's fine. You know, but I would say the other thing as well is just consistency, which kind of is the opposite of what I've just said there, but consistency really is key as well. Like this is what I do so people know this is what you do. It's just you adapt kind of the core of it, the deliverable or whatever it may be for the market.

Well, I've created my own agency, I've done that and that was hard to pay people's wages, etc. I'm now more of a consultant that works with other consultants. So agency format sort of, but I bring in consultants who are freelancers all over the place. So you've kind of got your own makeshift agency, which I absolutely love because I'm helping other freelancing consultants just like myself. and we all sort of help each other. So that's really great. I also belong to like cooperatives and things like that where they also do that. So, sorry, to answer your question, we're having a tangent. To answer your question, Tina couple of years, where do I want Sweet Spot to be? I want to work with some of the biggest brands in the world. I want to, you know, really change things and show brands where they can get there. information from and really adapt to, you know, the consumer behaviors that are happening. Because that is still not out there. We still got a lot of traditional thinking that is going on at the moment. I'd love to be at that to be more prolific and more people obviously doing that because be more successful. I don't think I would ever want to be an agency again. I've thought long and hard about this. And I think for me, especially with what's happening in my country, I'm in England, I don't know where you're viewers are, but, you know, there's a lot of youth unemployment at the moment. So what I probably would do is instead of building an agency, I would take on graduates, type of thing, teach them absolutely everything I know and have them support me if the business got bigger and bigger and bigger. And that's kind of where I'd like to be Tina few years. I'd like to be, you know, helping next generation to kind of grow and grow a career, but then at the same time, working with really big brands. facing really big challenges and solving them for them. That would be my dream.

Yeah, so can find me on LinkedIn. Tina Louise Thompson website is discoverthesweetspot.com. And yeah, just if you've got a commercial challenge, or even if you're another founder, and you just want to have a chat with another founder who's gone through it, more than happy to have conversations.

Thank you very much. It's good fun.