Consulting Rainmakers

That person at the head of the table is doing it on purpose

Yusuf Pingar · The Clear Edge ·

Yusuf Pingar is the Founder of The Clear Edge. This Consulting Rainmakers episode, hosted by Mikulas Zach, is about one idea, in Yusuf's words: That person at the head of the table is doing it on purpose.

Why do some people always take the seat at the head of the table?

Yusuf Pingar: It is deliberate, to signal authority and presence and show they are leading the meeting. Environment and seating are part of controlling a negotiation, so choose a setting where you are comfortable.

In this conversation, Yusuf explains why negotiation is about agreement rather than winning, the three things that decide a negotiation before it starts, and how living in four countries changed the way he negotiates.

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About Yusuf Pingar

Yusuf Pingar has spent twenty years leading marketing, communication and commercial functions across technology, telecommunications and professional services in Australia, the UAE and APAC. He was Managing Director of Spark, an independent marketing agency in Dubai, then Head of Marketing at Global Payments and at TPG Telecom, and Head of Marketing at Lumify Group before becoming its General Manager of Soft Skills, where he ran two businesses, Plain English Foundation and Effective Negotiation Services. Years earlier he had taught marketing and management to MBA students as a guest lecturer at Middlesex University in Dubai, and that is where the seed for training was planted. When he left Lumify he started The Clear Edge, which trains corporate teams and the people in them in leadership, negotiation, influencing, stakeholder management and effective communication.

Expect to learn why real training beats logging into an LMS, why mindset and preparation come before any tactic, how the room you negotiate in gives one side an edge, why the person at the head of the table sits there on purpose, why every agreement needs a written follow-up, how Americans, Australians and the Gulf negotiate differently, and why building common ground first makes the deal easier, and much more…

Yusuf Pingar: LinkedIn · Website

Chapters

  1. 0:00Cold open
  2. 0:32Welcome
  3. 0:43From Lumify Group To The Clear Edge
  4. 2:56The First Months Of A Startup
  5. 5:26Why Everyone Should Learn To Negotiate
  6. 7:46The Three Things That Decide A Negotiation
  7. 10:30Put Every Agreement In Writing
  8. 11:46Why The Room Matters
  9. 14:31Negotiating Across Four Countries
  10. 19:46The One Message For Listeners
  11. 20:37Where To Find Yusuf Pingar

Transcript

Machine transcript of the conversation between Yusuf Pingar and Mikulas Zach, lightly cleaned. Spelling of names and terms may be off.

Mikulas Zach

Joining me today is Yusuf Pingar, the founder at The Clear Edge. Yusuf, thank you for coming on today.

Yusuf Pingar

Thank you for having me, Meek.

Mikulas Zach

So tell me how did this all get started? you ran two businesses inside Lumify Group, that had, you know, well over ninety plus staff. and then you left to start the clear edge on your own. So what what kind of made you go that route?

From Lumify Group To The Clear Edge

Yusuf Pingar

That's really good question. And I'll have to take you back a few years to give you some context around why I started the Clear Edge. So I think the seeds of me getting into training, coaching, and facilitating, those seeds were laid way back when I was lecturing at Middlesex University in Dubai as a guest lecturer and at another university called Zabest in Dubai. I was I was lecturing at university level for MBA students and teaching them marketing as well as management. And I really used to enjoy that bit in addition to my full-time profession of being a marketeer and an advertising professional. So when I left Lumify Group and my last role was as general manager of Soft Skills, where I was heading up two businesses. One was Plain English Foundation, and the other one was Effective Negotiation Services. I had the choice to either find another job or start my own training business. And I thought Why not now? This is a fantastic opportunity for me to set up my own shop and my own consultancy and training business where I help the corporate sector and the individuals within those corporations to get trained in leadership, in negotiations, influencing, stakeholder management, and effective communication.

The First Months Of A Startup

Mikulas Zach

So you took the leap of faith, that's how I usually call it, and most people do. so how was, you know, the first months for you?

Yusuf Pingar

really interesting there were days and it's it's still fairly new it's a startup so I've I've only started the business a few months ago and the first few days were full of excitement and joy for bringing this business to life and I think I still have that excitement because it's still very new and it's something that I'm really passionate about. And the level of excitement is such that when I go to the gym in the morning and I'm running My mind is just exploding with ideas about things that I can do with the clear edge and how I can help the corporate sector globally in empowering their their employees and their staff to become so much better. I truly believe that organizations can make a huge difference. In the capability of their people and their talent pool just by providing them with quality training. Not the rubbish of of LMS platform where you log into something and then you get AI to complete that training for you, not that one. I'm talking about real training. with in-person experience, with case studies, with role play, with situation analysis, and with real examples from business. And that's what I do at the clear edge.

Mikulas Zach

So people when working with you they get a edge as the name kind of already. tell me why should someone even

Yusuf Pingar

Hundred percent, hundred percent, yeah. I mean, you you got it spot on. The the reason I named it the Clear Edge is because when you get trained by the Clear Edge, you have an edge in your professional career, you're more skilled, you've got more knowledge, and you know how to handle many different situations when it comes to negotiating the right outcomes.

Mikulas Zach

Ha ha. Hmm. Yusuf, why do you think that people should care in the first place about learning how to negotiate?

Why Everyone Should Learn To Negotiate

Yusuf Pingar

I think negotiation is an essential part of our life. I negotiate with my kids, my wife, my other family members, people in business, my gym instructor, my tennis partner, my bank, my mortgage broker, and so many other different parties on a day to day basis. Negotiation is an essential part of our everyday life and it complements effective communication. People should care about learning negotiation skills because it'll make them more confident in negotiating the right outcome. It'll help them be prepared for those uneasy situations in life or even easy situations in life where they want to get a better outcome. For example, negotiating a better salary package, negotiating working from home, or negotiating with your child that it's not gonna be a steak dinner, it's gonna be probably broccoli and some veggies. Which is not an easy negotiation for any parent. So I think every every person should care about.

Mikulas Zach

Not at all.

Yusuf Pingar

negotiation and negotiation skills because they are critical to help us in day-to-day life. And it's amazing that not many of us are aware of the fundamentals of how to negotiate. And people think in negotiation is about winning or losing. But it's actually not that. It's about coming to an agreement. It's about agreeing on something that both parties think is a win-win situation. That's the essentials of of a good negotiation. Whereas most people think it's about winning or losing, and that's not the case.

Mikulas Zach

Yeah. you're you're right. And I think not not a lot of people look at that like you just said. so what would you say is kind of the twenty eighty of negotiation in terms of you know what is important and what's not?

The Three Things That Decide A Negotiation

Yusuf Pingar

Sure. So there are a few things that I think are critical in being a good negotiator. And the first is mindset. And I just spoke earlier about having a positive mindset and a mindset where you're going into a negotiation to build relationships and to achieve a win-win outcome. If you want a win-win outcome, then The next step is to be prepared for achieving that outcome. So preparation in negotiation is the second most critical thing after having the right mindset. And when I say prepare, there are many different variables that go into preparation, ranging from understanding the needs of the party that you're negotiating with to your own needs. To the environment in which you're going to negotiate, to the fallback options, to the contingencies, and many other factors. Preparation is essential so that you are not shocked when you are discussing specific outcomes that you want to achieve, or you're discussing elements that are disputable or that can create an argument. So being prepared helps you navigate those tough arguments or those tough situations in a negotiation. The third key element of any negotiation is where you're negotiating and the climate around it. Is it in a boardroom, is it in a hotel lobby, in a coffee shop, or just at home? And what are the distractions around that environment? Are you able to communicate effectively with distractions? And is the other party able to understand your point of view and your rationale around what you want to achieve within many different variables in the environment? And how do you control that then? So I would say those are three critical things, but there are many more. And as part of my training program, Which I facilitate. There are many other variables that come into play when it comes to becoming an effective negotiator. And I'll just touch upon one which people don't even think about when they are negotiating, and that's about post-negotiation follow-up. Let's say you sit with a person and you agree on certain terms and conditions. An example. You're sitting with your boss and you want to raise in your salary. And after many discussions and a lot of back and forth, you agree that you're gonna get a 10% raise in your salary as well as a 12% bonus, and there are certain conditions around the bonus. It is critical that you follow that up with written communication, either via an email or another form of communication. Where you reiterate all these points that have been agreed on and get the other party to also sign on it or at least provide some sort of confirmation or acknowledgement that this is what has been agreed. Because six months down the line, you could have a different interpretation of what was agreed, and your manager could have a different interpretation of what was agreed, and then you don't want to be on the side where you're losing money.

Put Every Agreement In Writing

Why The Room Matters

Mikulas Zach

The the third point was really interesting to me because I I didn't hear it and I didn't realize how important the environment is and I wonder what's kind of the the best environment if you could be if you could choose an environment then what what's your favorite one

Yusuf Pingar

I think it's dependent on the situation and the message that you want to give out. I I know of someone who I used to work with, and as soon as we enter a boardroom or a meeting room, they would take a seat at the head of the table. Always. And I used to wonder why this person does that. And that was to signal authority, to signal presence, to signal that they are leading the meeting. Sometimes there are people who sit in meetings and they're constantly looking outside the window or at a screen as if they're ignoring what you're saying. And that's a deliberate move. Because they're controlling the conversation and they're they're they're letting you be annoyed by the fact that they're not paying attention to what you're saying. So they're controlling the conversation then, right? So I would say you choose. An environment or a location where you're comfortable, where there is no disturbance, where you can have a frank conversation over an extended period of time if need be. And ideally, something that you are comfortable with as opposed to what the other party might be comfortable with. If you look at international negotiations on politics. They happen normally in neutral locations. And there's a reason for that. It's because so that one party cannot control the climate and the environment and influence it. Because it can it can have a major influence. When you go for an interview to to a company's office, they control the environment. Right? They decide who's sitting where, if there's natural light coming in, if there's any Water or refreshments available, if there's any disturbance. But when you invite someone to your office, you're in control of those things. So there's a slight edge that you have. So I'd say choose the environment based on the type of meeting that you're gonna have and your comfort levels.

Negotiating Across Four Countries

Mikulas Zach

Hmm. Yusuf, one of the interesting things that you mentioned earlier before recording is that living in four different countries has impacted the way that you negotiate. So I want to bring this up and I I wonder how has that impacted you know your business and the way that you run things?

Yusuf Pingar

Thank you. That's that's a really thoughtful question. The fact that I've lived in four different countries really helps me understand different cultures and insights within those cultures and subcultures to be able to negotiate effectively. I've lived in America, I've lived in United Arab Emirates, specifically Dubai. I've lived in Doha, Qatar, and I've lived in two cities in Australia and currently in Sydney, where I've spent the longest period of time. And my experience in each city or country that I have lived in has taught me different variables that help me negotiate better. The Americans generally are more direct and forthright. In their dealings. They don't beat around the bush. And it's a very direct approach to negotiating. In Australia, on the other hand, people tend not to be so direct and are more on the polite side, more on the indirect side of conversations, and they like to have small talk before you discuss the main topic. In the Arab culture in Dubai, Which by the way has a mix of more than 90 different nationalities. There are so many different ways of negotiating with different kinds of people and cultures. In some cases, you're not actually negotiating, you're just building a relationship towards a negotiation. And you're talking about many other things that build commonality and alignment before you come to the main topic. And that's a great negotiation strategy because when you connect with someone on a business as well as a personal level, chances are it's going to be very easy to conclude certain outcomes in a negotiation as opposed to someone. Who you have absolutely no similarity with from a business or personal point of view. Let me give you some other examples to help you understand. I play tennis, I'm a tennis player as well. And whenever I meet someone who plays tennis, everything else becomes secondary, even though it might be for business. Because that individual and I would connect so passionately about tennis. And speak about the game, about how often we play, the players, and so many different things that then talking about business becomes easy. Now you could do that, you could do that kind of a conversation with someone you connect with over food, over drinks, travel, interest in AI, interest in technology, and many other topics. That particular aspect of building commonality and alignment with people is similar across the world. Some people will give you more chances to achieve that, and some people will not give you chances to achieve that. Like it's nice if you walk into a negotiation and someone says, How was your day? Did you watch this sport? What did you eat for lunch? Okay, let's come down to business. It gives you a chance to warm up and build some level of alignment. But then you can work with some cultures where as soon as you enter a meeting room, the next question is going to be: all right, so what are we going to talk about today in terms of business? And then you don't have a chance to warm up. But it's up to you to navigate that conversation in a way that you're able to warm up and build common alignment so that it becomes easier then to achieve that win-win situation that I spoke. So sorry that was a long answer to your question, but the short of it is that having lived in four different countries and having worked with people from so many different cultural backgrounds has helped me improve my ability to negotiate with different subsets of people and also helped me with strategies that I can use in different situations to Come to a more amicable situation.

The One Message For Listeners

Mikulas Zach

So mm w we mentioned a lot of things, a lot of advice in in the past nineteen minutes, and I wonder what would you like to be kind of the one message that the listeners take from this episode?

Yusuf Pingar

I truly believe that having good negotiation skills and good communication skills are a critical part of any individual's success in business or personal life. So invest in improving. your negotiation and communication skills and you see a massive improvement in the quality of your life when it comes to relationships, stakeholders and business.

Where To Find Yusuf Pingar

Mikulas Zach

Well, my last question is if people would like to take what I like to call the fast lane, what's the best place for them to find you?

Yusuf Pingar

If people want to take the fast lane, I've got an online course in negotiation. It's called Negotiate to Win. And it's available on my website, which is www.clearedge.au. I'll repeat that. ClearEdge.au. It's an online course. Do that course and you'll hit the ground running very quickly and you'll thank me for it.

Mikulas Zach

Amazing. So links are down below and Yusuf, thank you for coming on and sharing your negotiation insights.

Yusuf Pingar

Thank you.